Islam makes your life simple?

[iSok]

Islam made life pretty easy and simple for me Crow once I understood
what it meant to be a Muslim, could be different for other people.

[CHI83]

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/ quite a few members
http://www.formermuslims.com/ very small
http://www.faithfreedom.org/ this is a big one a relativly long established

I joined FFI and CEMB. I have to say CEMB is way better. Its one of the few genuine ex-muslim forums. People there are very supportive. FFI is kind of hateful so I would avoid it.

[Tank]

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/ quite a few members
http://www.formermuslims.com/ very small
http://www.faithfreedom.org/ this is a big one a relativly long established

I joined FFI and CEMB. I have to say CEMB is way better. Its one of the few genuine ex-muslim forums. People there are very supportive. FFI is kind of hateful so I would avoid it.

Well done! You sniffed out FFI! There are lots of ex-muslims there and a lot of hate as well. Gives you a bit of an idea of the 'outcast effect' where a person can turn on their previous 'in-group' in a most vicious manner. I'm glad, and very impressed, that you spotted the hatred yourself.

Another thing you should be aware of is that one can change one's dogma but still retain a dogmatic attitude. I haven't come across too many fundamentalists that have changed their world view but those that I have met (online) tend to be very dogmatic/fundamentalist/intolerant atheists.  They have changed their world view but not their attitude towards people who don't agree with them.

I would advise proportionate response when dealing with other people's world views, up to the point you discover you are wasting your time and then walk away. You don't have to deconvert anybody, you're only responsible for your behaviour. You can't win against Faith as it is an irrational/emotional position that is, by definition, immune to facts/logic/reason. The truly faithful are delusional. Nothing exists for them but their faith, it is immutable and all-encompassing and above all completely and utterly correct.

[Whitney]

Islam made life pretty easy and simple for me Crow once I understood
what it meant to be a Muslim, could be different for other people.

Why would simple be desirable?

[Asmodean]

Why would simple be desirable?

I figured out that some people just can't stand complexity. Nor do they want to be independent enough to take responsibility for all their actions and decisions, including the bad and the catastrophic ones. Having someone untouchable to "blame" makes things easier, I suppose.

For my part, I'd probably crawl up on the walls of boredom if I were to live a simple life.

However, bowing to the floor for that thing five times a day and hanging around places of worship is just a silly way of wasting time... And then, of course, there is the opression of women, homosexuals, non-religious people and pretty much you-name-who. Doing all that opressing must be kinda' draining in the long run. Oh! And the virgins you get way up there for all your trouble... They only remain virgin until you sleep with them, yes..? And if I'm gay, will I has virgins of the same sex as I..? I don't like virgins. Too little experience.

/end musing before I start talking no sense at all

[Sweetdeath]

I actually have a question for Medusa, since she mentioned she was dating (or engaged?)  to a muslim man.

If this is not allowed, Whitney, please let me know.

I want to ask:  How can you be alright dating someone who's religious places women beneath dogs, and says it is okay to murder homosexuals?
I read in another forum you wanted to raise your children islamic..   What if you have daughters?

I'm just confused and curious.... Looking for an honest answer.

[Medusa]

I actually have a question for Medusa, since she mentioned she was dating (or engaged?)  to a muslim man.
  How can you be alright dating someone who's religious places women beneath dogs, and says it is okay to murder homosexuals?
I read in another forum you wanted to raise your children islamic..   What if you have daughters?

Simple. Because it's actually not. There is a difference between Islamic law and the culture where you live in. Catholics here are very different then Catholic in Rome or in Mexico. Take for example head coverings in the Islamic world. Depending upon the culture you are in, will depend upon the style you choose to wear. And where there is a culture(read country) where something is mandated by threat of punishment..you will find a whole slew of human right violations across the board that have no real bearing on religious law.

*as I am unsure of who Whitney is or what is permissible..I won't go into quoting the Qur'an for specific surahs to show you the views it carries on your particular questions. Unless it's ok for me to do so. I am still currently in Islamic courses and have read the Qur'an a few times to be familiar with these specific surahs.


As an aside...my fiance's mother (well the family) are all doctors. And she does not wear any head covering and is actually quite a political go getter of a woman. He lives in Cairo, Egypt. And he took part in protecting and protesting during the horrid Mubarak take down. I'm quite proud of his enthusiasm for justice and freedom.

[Whitney]

<---whitney

[Medusa]

<---whitney

Ha! Ok. So...am I able to post some of the surahs from the Qur'an to explain where my position on this subject stands? I'm not sure if this is allowed or not by the statement above me. I am in no way promoting a religion. Just trying to explain where I came up with my acceptance of said future husband's religion.

[Tank]

<---whitney

Ha! Ok. So...am I able to post some of the surahs from the Qur'an to explain where my position on this subject stands? I'm not sure if this is allowed or not by the statement above me. I am in no way promoting a religion. Just trying to explain where I came up with my acceptance of said future husband's religion.

There is no prohibition on the quoting of the content of holy books if you are using them to support a point of view or to inform a discussion. However simply posting tracts from holy books for no reason or to preach about them is frowned upon, but if somebody does that they will normally get a 'tap on the shoulder' from the staff before they are shown the door. Hope that helps.

[MariaEvri]

to answer the title, I guess yes it does make decision-making easier.
examples?
a woman showed her face?
stone her
a woman drives a car?
kill her
a woman is rapes?
execute her
a woman decides to marry a man from another religion?
kill her at once

see? easy

[palebluedot]

Our Imam (he is a crazy fundy) told us a whole load of bull.

This is very telling.  I honestly want to know the truth about what goes on in mosques.   Your Imam is a crazy fundamentalist ?   Really how common is this?

In the UK, it is a very popular opinion that the number of fundamentalists with the power to preach is higher than most would like to imagine.  Allegedly serious investigations that we are made aware of seem to confirm the same.  Of course how does anyone know whether there is an agenda when making reports, or whether the Imams are hidden away when the cameras turn up.

But then the vast majority of Muslims, that are given a voice, reject this wholeheartedly.  They say it is just the media's crusade agaisnt Islam.  Isma means peace etc etc.

Of course the politicians say the same but when have they ever taken their heads from up their arses to actually learn the truth? Their assurances must be discounted on principle.

So really what is the score?   Are there crazy fundy Imams in the mosques?  Are they a problem for Muslims themselves?  Dare they not mention it?  Is trouble really brewing?

Or is it really a fabricated lie?   Did the "home grown" suicide bombers radicalise themselves?

Serious answers sought

[Sweetdeath]

to answer the title, I guess yes it does make decision-making easier.
examples?
a woman showed her face?
stone her
a woman drives a car?
kill her
a woman is rapes?
execute her
a woman decides to marry a man from another religion?
kill her at once

see? easy

This is just depressing....  ;__;

[CHI83]

Our Imam (he is a crazy fundy) told us a whole load of bull.

This is very telling.  I honestly want to know the truth about what goes on in mosques.   Your Imam is a crazy fundamentalist ?   Really how common is this?

In the UK, it is a very popular opinion that the number of fundamentalists with the power to preach is higher than most would like to imagine.  Allegedly serious investigations that we are made aware of seem to confirm the same.  Of course how does anyone know whether there is an agenda when making reports, or whether the Imams are hidden away when the cameras turn up.

But then the vast majority of Muslims, that are given a voice, reject this wholeheartedly.  They say it is just the media's crusade agaisnt Islam.  Isma means peace etc etc.

Of course the politicians say the same but when have they ever taken their heads from up their arses to actually learn the truth? Their assurances must be discounted on principle.

So really what is the score?   Are there crazy fundy Imams in the mosques?  Are they a problem for Muslims themselves?  Dare they not mention it?  Is trouble really brewing?

Or is it really a fabricated lie?   Did the "home grown" suicide bombers radicalise themselves?

Serious answers sought

Not all Imams are like that, most I've met are more normal and moderate.

He hasn't told us to kill anyone but he takes Islam way too literally. Our old Imam was much calmer during his lectures and was more nicer. This guy screams too much (making it harder to fall asleep). The first day he made us align just like while we were praying when we were sitting (he told us he did this because the Prophet did). A little kid sat at the front and he made him go to the back because edlers have to be up front. There was also a little girl (she wasn't wearing a hijab) in the middle row, he told her to either go to the women's part in the back or go behind all the men. The other Imams didn't really care about these little details or didn't shout as much.

He told us about when monkeys didn't attack him and steal when he was living abroad. He left food out for them and he saw how the elders took first, then women,children and finally the men. He also noticed some young monkey was trying to steal the food and got taken away and exiled by the "bodyguard" monkeys. He told us this a miracle from Allah (monkeys are one of our relatives right and probably have evolved or learned these complex social structures).

He is pretty much the perfect example of a conservative muslim. He had a huge beard, wears all the traditional white clothes (the old Imam just showed up in jeans sometimes) and follows every rule. He is arab. If he suddenly turned radical I wouldn't really be surprised. Says every good thing is from Allah but refuses to say that anything bad that has come from Allah or the Prophet.

[CHI83]

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/ quite a few members
http://www.formermuslims.com/ very small
http://www.faithfreedom.org/ this is a big one a relativly long established

I joined FFI and CEMB. I have to say CEMB is way better. Its one of the few genuine ex-muslim forums. People there are very supportive. FFI is kind of hateful so I would avoid it.

Well done! You sniffed out FFI! There are lots of ex-muslims there and a lot of hate as well. Gives you a bit of an idea of the 'outcast effect' where a person can turn on their previous 'in-group' in a most vicious manner. I'm glad, and very impressed, that you spotted the hatred yourself.

Another thing you should be aware of is that one can change one's dogma but still retain a dogmatic attitude. I haven't come across too many fundamentalists that have changed their world view but those that I have met (online) tend to be very dogmatic/fundamentalist/intolerant atheists.  They have changed their world view but not their attitude towards people who don't agree with them.

I would advise proportionate response when dealing with other people's world views, up to the point you discover you are wasting your time and then walk away. You don't have to deconvert anybody, you're only responsible for your behaviour. You can't win against Faith as it is an irrational/emotional position that is, by definition, immune to facts/logic/reason. The truly faithful are delusional. Nothing exists for them but their faith, it is immutable and all-encompassing and above all completely and utterly correct.

Yeah, I don't really have to worry about that. Pretty much everyone in the forum is an ex-muslim (most of them are atheists or agnostics). I also hear the muslims there are wonderful, lovely and open-minded people. I mainly went there to get advice not bash peoples faith.