Life after death?

[MommaSquid]

Mark Twain aka Samuel Clemens:

Mr. Clemens was once asked whether he feared death. He said that he did not, in view of the fact that he had been dead for billions and billions of years before he was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

I read that on StumbleUpon.com

[SteveS]

That's it MommaSquid!  Thanks - I checked my books last night but could not find the quote.

Don't we tend to associate our "being" with our identity, which relies a lot on our capacity for memory? If the idea is that we reincarnate as a different person with no memory of who we were before, isn't that more or less the same thing as dying forever?

Yup - that's pretty much how I see it.  Who cares if I get reincarnated as somebody else?  I wouldn't really be me.  I'd be somebody else.  So what would it even mean to say "I am somebody else"?  Might as well say "I am not", which is the same as being dead.

Oh well (shrugs).  Reincarnation sounds good until you realize its irrelevant to our sense of self.

Maybe I wouldn't want my remains to be a dragonfly after all - maybe I'd rather have them become beer yeast.  The life of a beer yeast is very short, but very sweet.  You get to run rampant eating sugar and reproducing like crazy, and you leave behind "beneficial pollution" (alcohol and "flavor compounds") that makes other organisms very happy - who could ask for more?

[ReflectingNarcissist]

I understand that evolution has made me who I am today. I don't doubt evolution for a second. However, I want a better understanding of this....Surely there has to be something more to it than Darwin's Theory of Evolution

If Darwin's Theory of Evolution had major relevance to metaphysics and and things unearthly, as opposed to merely sentients and other lifeforms, an explanation would be much easier to find.

I could alter my mind with drugs, have a stroke or develop schizophrenia and become a completely different person with different thoughts, emotions and behavior but I want to know why this particular combination of genes makes me who I am.

I would agree with Squid that you could examine a case like Phineas Gage.

How does mere matter make a mind with an understanding of ones self in the universe?

As for the understanding of ones self in the universe, I would (again) agree that you should focus more on consciousness studies if you wish to narrow the dimensions of what exactly you wish answered.  
To give you my opinion, however, I believe consciousness to be a comtomatant (I may of spelled that wrong) to recognition and perception, rather than the more orthodox idea of perception arising from the idea of the self. So to answer your question (somewhat), mere matter makes the brain, which makes the ability to process information, which makes it possible for acknowledgment and general awareness. Self awareness comes by proxy. Of course, that's all just personal belief.

Through what sublime process does electrochemical energy become something that allows ME to have an existence in the first place?

I'm not well-versed in electrochemistry. However, I would think you could substitute the word "sublime" with "natural". How grand or aesthetically pleasing that seems to you is purely subjective.

. I am not saying its wrong I am just looking for an explanation on a deeper level because as I see it now I tend to think perhaps there is something after death which can not be explained by evidence.

If it cannot be explained by evidence, it is purely supposition. It is impossible to use something within the parameter of observable phenomenon (evolution) to identify something that cannot be observed. As already mentioned, however, there are things after death which have evidence of occuring: decomposition. And as with the natural process of electrochemistry, rather you are content with this answer is purely subjective.

It seems I messed up the quote function. I'll have it fixed in a moment.

[boo_ya]

Cheers for the great responses. Sorry for such a direct question without any formal introduction. I will post something up shortly. I went looking for an atheist forum because I consider myself to be on the same wave length as your typical atheist. Unfortunately I don’t personally know any atheists so it is good to be able to here your thoughts on life from an atheist perspective. I don’t really consider myself an atheist but I suppose in a way I am pretty close. Perhaps I am an atheist that simply is yet to rule out the possibility of a God in some form or another. Like many of you said I am probably just searching for meaning but am certainly not clutching any hope of an after life or heaven. I also find nothingness quite comforting. I like to explore the philosophy of life through a scientific perspective rather than have some religious wack job preach shit to me 24/7. So I guess I am in the right place. Saying that I quite enjoy conversations with religious people so long as its not a one way conversation being “I am right, and your wrong”.

I particularly liked what pjkeeley’s said

I think what brain science will find, and what it seems to have revealed so far, is that we don't actually exist, at least not in the way we think we do. Being is an illusion. It's pretty fascinating though. It's all a bit zen.

I will be sure to look into Phineas Gage. I am familiar with Chaos theory but have not read James Gleick book.

To answer your question Steves I do not think there is something after death that can be explained by evidence. I think there is something after death that can not be explained by evidence. But I would like to elaborate on that. Even though I have not ruled out the possibility of a god I am not trying to say that I think something after death is necessarily god related. Maybe just within the cycle of life we are once again able to experience a conscious life without having any recollection of a previous life.

[SteveS]

Thanks for the response boo_ya.  I guess, if I don't have evidence for something, I tend not to "think" it exists.  This is directly because I can't convince myself why I should "think" that way.

[jcm]

Thanks a lot SteveS and MommaSquid, I haven’t read that quote before. I am totally going to use it from now on.

[Churchworker]

Absolutely, ask any Xian. They are already walking zombies (dead people who are still living.)

[Jeremiah]

"I think, therefore I am"  - René Descartes

I highly doubt dead men think.

[0dan1]

here's my tuppence.

your brain is composed of a bunch of atoms, put together in a way that evolution has defined as appropriate, due to the process of natural selection. When you die, the cells that were made of the atoms begin to disperse, your body and brain falls apart, rots away.

In death, there is nothing, there is no self, it isnt some sort of 'sleep' there is no concioussness whatsoever. I believe that once you are dead, you might has well have never existed, the universe might as well not exist, because if there is no 'you' then there is no 'anything'.

I take great joy in this, ever the optimist, and I think it gives my life a cheery, pleasant comfort that one day nothing that happened whilst i lived amounted to anything at all.

[jrosebud]

...Ultimately, though, I don't think it's even possible to speculate upon what comes after you're dead OR what came before you were born, for that matter. Whatever it is, it's beyond our comprehension. You simply can't begin to make assumptions about what it feels like not to be a conscious, sentient, living creature... or should that be what it doesn't feel like? Cross that bridge when you come to it, says I.

I like the way you put that.  

[sveric]

Im still very skeptical about what the true meaning of my life is if in the end it doesn't amout to anything. It just seems illogical in its own sense.. I don't beleive theres a true afterlife or anything like that but it wouldnt suprise me if death had its own logical reasonings as well. I think i read somewhere recently that dna might pass our ancestor's  as well as our own memories onto our offspring. If the sense of identity truly is just encorporated memory what would happen if we eventually found ways of unlocking these memories? Kinda liek past life regression in a scientific manner. Would not the identies of our ancestors be living on in some very limited manner? Adding onto that what if the "sense of self" that we all have is just a collection of living intentions? How can i put this into words . Our bodies are designed to help us acheive the things our minds seek to do. Our genes are constantly being thrown and jumbled together with thouseands of other peoples... half finished dreams and aspirations. bleh im having a hard time making this concrete. I hope somebody gets the jist of what im trying to say. It would make sense to me that our bodies are just tools to help acheive the collective dreams of our thousands of ancestors. Feelings and reactions to events we have are just involuntary subconsious memories in action with some sort of intention. In some way i feel that the way its almost human nature for us to want  to beleive in something greater than our selves is just the recognition that we are the culmination of thousands of lives and people in one consiousness.

[SteveS]

I really don't think DNA stores memories - otherwise, my DNA would be constantly modified during the course of my life, as I acquire new memories.  And, I don't think that happens.

In fact, it would be downright weird if it did.  I don't want to accidentally unlock any memories of my great-great-grandfather masturbating.....yuck!

[sveric]

Actually it may be possible. At least on a subconsious level. http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... es_on.html

[ReflectingNarcissist]

Actually it may be possible. At least on a subconsious level. http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... es_on.html

More like on an unconsious level.

With genetic memory, the "memory" passed through genes doesn't act as a catalyst for the actions of the one who inherits. And though I suppose it's "recollection" with a very strict definition, the inheritor doesn't exactly remember memories. They just have the capacity to possible have an instinct or an inclination to act.

As such, your theory about composition from thousands of different consciousness doesn't make much sense. Genetic memory carries through generations, but only from the recollection of the previous holder of the genes. Your great-great-great grandfather isn't acting through you. Nor did he act through his son. His son merely had the capacity to hold a slight carbon copy of memories.

Also, the rest of your stuff is purely spiritual speculation. You assign a teleology to explain cognition and mental subjectivity. If you wish to believe your body to be a distinct inferior entity from your mind, don't expect anything but speculation and faith to support you.

[Smarmy Of One]

That feeling that there is something more after death is called 'fear.' We are all afraid of dying. Religions have made countless trillions of dollars exploiting that fear since the beginning of humanity.

Obviously, matter cannot be created nor, destroyed. The energy and matter that makes us has been here since the beginning of the universe (if it had a beginning) and will always exist.

In that sense, we are all immortal or at least our parts are. As far as our own consciousness surviving after death, I believe that's just wishful thinking.

If I may echo an earlier posted sentiment, remember what you felt and thought before you were born? That's what death will be like.

All personal opinion of course.