Greeting. A happy agnostic here!

[Zvezdichko]

Greetings. I'm Svetoslav from Bulgaria and I have B.Sc. in Molecular Biology and M.Sc. in Plant Physiology.

I could say I'm a happy agnostic. Theistic agnostic, more like. I disagree with Prof. Dr. Dawkins' conclusions about agnostics, because I think that the mere fact of existence of the Universe (I would call it argument from existence) is a good enough theistic opposition to one of the strongest theistic arguments - argument from poor design. This places me in the line of agnostics. I would place myself 3 on Dawkins' belief scale.

I mean, I agree with a lot of atheistic arguments against religion. I do think that Classical Christianity in its pure and fundamental form is evil. I do think that sending good and moral atheists to hell is a horrendous doctrine that, as the great thinker Robert Ingersoll says, should never ever be preached. I do think that there are many Biblical verses that raise questions at the best and point to an evil deity at the worst.

However, I think that I would also agree with Prof. Dr. John Lennox who says that while atheism is the one that can solve the many problems (like that of evil), atheism doesn't offer anything that would make people happy. I've heard many atheists who say they are "happy" atheists just because they were in Christianity and they've seen many horrors of hell preaching - how could not be happy when you're sure that there is no hell, that there is not an evil deity? However a free thinker like me finds himself in a very unpleasant condition. It's one thing to be a Christian. It's one thing to stop being a Christian and turn to agnosticism. It's one thing to swap Christianity to another religion.

But it's another thing to switch to atheism. The leap between Christianity and agnosticism is a smaller one to take than between agnosticism and atheism. Because it would mean to accept a natural world without miracles, without deities, but this would mean a natural world without afterlife, without the hope you may be cured of a disease, for example, with a horrible realisation that when you die ... there will be nothing. Just nothing. This is a very unpleasant thought and is also horrendous according to Prof. Lennox.

Of course, you may also say that atheism is strictly a product of knowledge and science and since science isn't trying to cherry pick the things that are pleasant and omit things that aren't pleasant to a person. This is an argument I cannot argue with, I admit. But I would ask a honest atheist - do you think our society should give up on all faiths? And what really makes you a happy atheist?

Regards,

Svetlio

[The Magic Pudding]

Hello Svetoslav from Bulgaria

Of course, you may also say that atheism is strictly a product of knowledge and science and since science isn't trying to cherry pick the things that are pleasant and omit things that aren't pleasant to a person. This is an argument I cannot argue with, I admit. But I would ask a honest atheist - do you think our society should give up on all faiths? And what really makes you a happy atheist?

My happiness or lack of it has little to do with non belief.  I suppose if I had a fear of hell and then lost it I might feel relatively happy.  Not accepting religion gives you freedom to think and act in your own way, this could help with happiness. 

Maybe I'm not a happy atheist, I just don't want to be one of the rabid kind who hold every christian personally responsible for every abused child.  I don't really mind if christians cherry pick to make their belief less offensive.

I have some sympathy for Dawkins feeling pissed at religion, the looniest theists seem to aim their most ludicrous ideas at his area of expertise.  Must be annoying when they demand equal time and pollute Google searches with their crap.

[Stevil]

...with a horrible realisation that when you die ... there will be nothing. Just nothing. This is a very unpleasant thought and is also horrendous according to Prof. Lennox.

do you think our society should give up on all faiths?

And what really makes you a happy atheist?

I'm not sure why I would be fearful of the time after my death. Surely I wont have a consciousness to even know that I am dead.

I would love it if faith was removed from society. I have a horrible feeling that people are being lied to, purposefully confused and deceived, people are brainwashing their own kids and disowning them or treating them miserably if they don't behave as good Christians or Muslims etc.
People are praying for things that they feel they have no control on rather than trying to find a way or to focus their energies on more tangible and useful things.

What makes me happy? A smile from my wife, a giggle from my two year old, a milestone from my 5 month old. Yes, i guess I am easy to please.

[Zvezdichko]

I'm not sure why I would be fearful of the time after my death. Surely I wont have a consciousness to even know that I am dead.

I'm not sure I made myself clear. I am also not fearful of the time after my death. I personally don't care if it'll be New Jerusalem, reincarnation, afterlife or lack of afterlife... I don't care much about this.

I'm afraid NOW, in THIS life that there will come a moment called death, when my bodily functions will cease to exist. This is what horrifies me and I guess this is what horrifies many people.

[Tank]

I'm not sure why I would be fearful of the time after my death. Surely I wont have a consciousness to even know that I am dead.

I'm not sure I made myself clear. I am also not fearful of the time after my death. I personally don't care if it'll be New Jerusalem, reincarnation, afterlife or lack of afterlife... I don't care much about this.

I'm afraid NOW, in THIS life that there will come a moment called death, when my bodily functions will cease to exist. This is what horrifies me and I guess this is what horrifies many people.

I think the idea of dying horrifies the vast majority of people!

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

[Zvezdichko]

Yes, indeed.

And thanks for the welcome!

I'm going to add also my personal story of how I actually reached agnosticism. When I was teenager, I had the chance to be in a very good school. I soon turned out to be one of the best students, I participated in many contests and I won them. I was always told that I'm smart and I should study more. And I studied. The problem is,while studying mathematics and biology and physics, I started thinking about death. I didn't believe in God. I never felt he existed. I was sure what when I die, I will simply cease existing. And this caused me a huge nervous breakdown.

However I greaduated from school and got accepted in University. It's in the Uni Campus where I met the evangelical community. How it was allowed to thrive in academic circles is beyond my abilities to understand, nor I'm able to understand why the hell some creationists are still allowed to preach pseudoscientists in Universities! But that's another story... What  you should know is that these evangelical people told me that "God loves me", "God loves the whole world"... So you see, after nervous breakdowns because of my fear of death, I can justify why I embraced Christianity.

The problem is, the good news turned out to be not so good news.

When I started attending churches, I heard a lot of disturbing sermons. Like... "There will be very good people who will suffer for all eternity just because they don't come here and believe in God"... Moreover, most of the people in church turned out to be hypocritical, rude, unhelpful.

So what happened? I graduated from University with B.Sc. and M.Sc. degrees and my critical thinking was fully developed so I just couldn't bear this apologetic nonsense about existence of God.

So here I am... still not knowing the "truth", unbelieving that God is good, unbelieving in Classical Christianity... but with a girlfriend of mine that I love too much and I want to marry. ACK! I won't leave her. After all that bullcrap in church at least one thing turned out to be true - true love  never fails

I'm agnostic now. I still read, still study, still want to know the truth... whatever it is. I think that even going to Church may be not so bad... if not that hipocrisy up there. I think that if I lived in the USA I would have gone to Unitarian Universalist Church. Because this is what I believe now - the dignity of every person on this Earth

[The Black Jester]

Of course, you may also say that atheism is strictly a product of knowledge and science and since science isn't trying to cherry pick the things that are pleasant and omit things that aren't pleasant to a person. This is an argument I cannot argue with, I admit. But I would ask a honest atheist - do you think our society should give up on all faiths? And what really makes you a happy atheist?

Regards,

Svetlio

First, let me extend another "Welcome" to HAF.  You are clearly thoughtful and intelligent, and emotionally honest: traits I can admire.

But as to your final question: I would simply answer that humanity's good is not due to religion, but to humanity's character: a character that cannot help but inform the shape of the religions it professes.  Similarly with humanity's evils.  Neither can be blamed on specific institutions, really, but must be placed squarely around our own necks.  Institutions are merely methods of intensifying and codifying our already present inclinations, be they beneficent or malevolent.  Although, I will admit that Institutions do make it far easier to homogenize people, but I don't really believe they instill anything - I think they merely attach ideas to instincts already present in individuals.  If we were not vengeful, divine incitements to vengence would hold no sway with us.  If we were truly only selfish, incitements to generosity would similarly not sway us.

If we are able to evolve culturally (not strict evolution, mind you) enough to shed certain of our institutions, we may simply be faced with the task of addressing our own unhappiness, dissappointments, and fears directly, rather than through the veil of a dream.  Camus' line from the Myth of Sisyphus seems appropriate here: "One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

[Zvezdichko]

Much thanks!!!

[Melmoth]

Welcome! Interesting OP.

[Cecilie]

Welcome! I suppose you couldn't have picked an easier username?

[Cooper20]

Svetoslav is such a cool name. I wish I was a Vladimir or Slava myself, but I suppose Patrick will do. 

Welcome!

[thedport]

Welcome, you sound like an extremely intelegent person with some very good points of veiw. I am looking forward to seeing around on other parts of the site!

[Zvezdichko]

Much thanks... Right now I frequent Rational Skepticism . The 50-post limit is quite discouraging

[thedport]

Much thanks... Right now I frequent Rational Skepticism . The 50-post limit is quite discouraging

Don't get discouraged, I still post a lot in the getting to know you sections even though I met my 50 post mark. I enjoy the laid back atmosphere.