What's on your mind today?

[Dave]

Never mind, it keeps mind and body active, hopefully tuning a few more muscles back up, whilst I can't find many ways of using my skills, knowledge etc out in the world of charity. Trouble is I have few formal qualifications and some of the jobs I could do should be filled by a paid staff member. The local school has stopped its evening craft clubs because of a lack of formally qualified staff willing to supervise, a legal requirement - I once helped in the workshop there many years ago.

A lot of good and useful service is being refused because of the presumed requirement for credentials. That is a damned shame.  I know of  several people who are experts at their crafts. They would be pleased to pass on their knowledge of their crafts and life experiences.  Absent some sort of credential their service goes unfulfilled. 

That is not the sum of the folly. There are agencies who refuse to allow old people to contribute. The thinking, apparently, is that old people are all senile and do not have the ability to communicate useful skills.

Yet, there have been "mentoring" projects - I was involved in one with the Probation Service 30 odd years ago. It worked, got some kids back to school and into work.

Then the government cut the funding. The recidivation wave that followed overloaded the service and probably cost many times the funding,

I taught literacy and numeracy for a few years to both kids and adults. Now you have to pay hundreds of pounds for a two year course before you can be accepted as an unpaid volunteer. Madness! There is a similar problem teaching immigrant to improver their English. Utter madness!!

[Essie Mae]

I have to get the train down to London this evening for a work meeting tomorrow.  I usually look forward to going but it's going to be so rushed this year that I don't want to go.

Hope it was better than you were expecting. Going into London always cheers me up.

[Essie Mae]

Been chatting online with my mother. Once again I am reminded of how fortunate I am. She had to have eye surgery recently, so she couldn't drive. She had to pester my stepfather endlessly to get him to take her anywhere. All those months I couldn't drive after breaking my knee, I never once had to pester my husband to take me anywhere. The smallest mention of me wanting to go somewhere, and he was asking me how long it would be before I was ready to go. Never a word of complaint about taking me to work or picking me up from work at 2 am. I never felt like I was a bother or a nuisance. Something like that may seem small, but it really isn't.

Lucky you Velma; I've got one like that too and he dyes my hair for me!

[Essie Mae]

Went to he BP Portrait Award exhibition at the National Portait Gallery this week and Mr M liked the ones that look so like photographs that it's hard to tell the difference. Much as I admire the artistry, I do find them a bit creepy. I like the slightly more impressionistic ones.  There was one that had a face shape but no features; just a few brush strokes which I thought was awful. Can any of you artists out there explain to me what the criteria might be for being chosen out of the thousands of entries to the final 53 that made it?

[Dave]

Went to he BP Portrait Award exhibition at the National Portait Gallery this week and Mr M liked the ones that look so like photographs that it's hard to tell the difference. Much as I admire the artistry, I do find them a bit creepy. I like the slightly more impressionistic ones.  There was one that had a face shape but no features; just a few brush strokes which I thought was awful. Can any of you artists out there explain to me what the criteria might be for being chosen out of the thousands of entries to the final 53 that made it?

From my untutored observations if the "fine art" world there is little rhyme or reason for their choices. I once watched a prog with George Melly, the famous jazz singer (who sounded like a drain being force cleaned,) and some old bird who smoked cigars discussing art in a most pretentious and supercilious way. Utter BS to me!

Some I can underdtand but a lot just goes over my head. As you imply, Essie, whilst being impressed with the technical skill the "art" content often seems elusive.

[hermes2015]

Went to he BP Portrait Award exhibition at the National Portait Gallery this week and Mr M liked the ones that look so like photographs that it's hard to tell the difference. Much as I admire the artistry, I do find them a bit creepy. I like the slightly more impressionistic ones.  There was one that had a face shape but no features; just a few brush strokes which I thought was awful. Can any of you artists out there explain to me what the criteria might be for being chosen out of the thousands of entries to the final 53 that made it?

I think there are close analogies between art and science. To help one get to grips with it, I think the following divisions may be helpful:

1. There is practical science, or technology, that most people can understand. This is usually based on fundamental research that may have seemed pointless and incomprehensible to the "man in the street" at the beginning. Cell phones are a good example.
The equivalent to this in the art world is commercial art, that is used in areas like advertising. Some adverts that are very easy to understand by the masses may use abstraction or surrealism, which were very difficult to understand by ordinary folk when artists started working in these styles.

2. There is another category of science that can be understood by non-scientists who like to read about science or even dabble, like amateur astronomers. In art, we are in the area of decorative non-commercial art. Examples are the reproductions or originals of landscapes, portraits, or still lifes that people hang on their walls as part of the interior decoration scheme. Many people have favourite works by Picasso or Monet that were met with incomprehension by the public when they were first painted.

3. Then we have the truly avant-garde science, where the results are so weird that normal people struggle to understand them. Obvious examples are quantum mechanics or work by people like Stephen Hawking. Some of this research may lead to dead ends (maybe String Theory?) but it is still necessary to walk that path. Some of it will lead to results that become mainstream science and later find practical applications. Similarly, we have artists who are compelled to explore the boundaries and push them back, often in academic environments. Again, the general public may not understand any of this and ridicule the results of these artistic experiments. Where is the line between the avant-garde and avant-garbage? The serious artists are driven to experiment and are absolutely sincere about their work; they are not out to con the public. A large portion of this will probably lead to dead ends, but it still has to be done. There are journals that publish the results and hypotheses of advanced science. In art, new, boundary-pushing art is introduced to an often baffled public in exhibitions, lectures, and publications.

I know I am going to be criticized for over-simplifying. I am aware that it is a spectrum and that there are many fine nuances between the three categories I mentioned.

In the above I am assuming that scientists and artists are sincere and that we should give them the benefit of the doubt and try to look at their work without prejudice. Of course, I am not denying that there are poseurs and con artists out there. And we will, of course, always have annoyingly pretentious people who talk about these things, but I guess that is inevitable (I hope I am not seen as one of these because I am writing this).

Music is another art form that I find very interesting, because exactly the same categories exist in music.

It would be nice to hear any other opinions on the visual arts or music from other members.

[Guardian85]

Been a bit of a tough week.

Last weekend we went back to my old hometown to visit my grandmother and to take in the Air Base aniversary air show.


The trouble began on Sunday as we were getting ready to go home. My grandmother started fussing over her bank card code and how she had trouble remembering it. After harping on about that for the better part of an hour she started getting unsteady on her feet and going incoherent. Me and my dad relized she was probably having a stroke and called an ambulance.
Turns out she didn't have a stroke, but a pretty severe brain hemmorage. Now a week late she can't speak coherently, is still paralyzed in her left side and apparently can't recognize people.
Don't know how this ends, but no realistic possibility is good.

[Essie Mae]

Thank you for you thoughtful response; it makes sense.  I like the idea that there are those who push hard against the prevailing boundaries, but feel a bit uneasy in case they're  conning us. i wouldn't want them to not be doing it though. same with the science, especially the science.

I found it quite disconcerting to see the work of FE students being so influenced by some of the more, (to me), outlandish stuff because it looked derivative rather than their own ideas.

[Firebird]

Turns out she didn't have a stroke, but a pretty severe brain hemmorage. Now a week late she can't speak coherently, is still paralyzed in her left side and apparently can't recognize people.
Don't know how this ends, but no realistic possibility is good.

Oh man, I'm so sorry guardian. Will be thinking of you guys. Where is she now, still in the hospital?

[Dave]

Been a bit of a tough week.

[. . . ]

Don't know how this ends, but no realistic possibility is good.

My thoughrs are with you, Guardian

[hermes2015]

Thank you for you thoughtful response; it makes sense.  I like the idea that there are those who push hard against the prevailing boundaries, but feel a bit uneasy in case they're  conning us. i wouldn't want them to not be doing it though. same with the science, especially the science.

I found it quite disconcerting to see the work of FE students being so influenced by some of the more, (to me), outlandish stuff because it looked derivative rather than their own ideas.

You are welcome, Essie. Yes, there will always be charlatans, but I really believe they are far outnumbered by artists who are working in good faith. The con artists do not survive long, because in the end there is always peer review, which in the art world is largely a matter of consensus. If an artist is deemed to have made a legitimate contribution in the judgement of critics, academics, and other artists, one can be sure that the artist's work will survive. Of course, reputations can decline, as is currently the case with Henry Moore, but I would still love to have a Moore sculpture in my garden! If you want to buy something, I recommend that you go to one of the reputable galleries, where they will be happy to guide you. The ones that have been around for many years are unlikely to risk their reputations by conning the public.

[xSilverPhinx]

Been a bit of a tough week.

Last weekend we went back to my old hometown to visit my grandmother and to take in the Air Base aniversary air show.


The trouble began on Sunday as we were getting ready to go home. My grandmother started fussing over her bank card code and how she had trouble remembering it. After harping on about that for the better part of an hour she started getting unsteady on her feet and going incoherent. Me and my dad relized she was probably having a stroke and called an ambulance.
Turns out she didn't have a stroke, but a pretty severe brain hemmorage. Now a week late she can't speak coherently, is still paralyzed in her left side and apparently can't recognize people.
Don't know how this ends, but no realistic possibility is good.

That sucks, G85.

[xSilverPhinx]

Went to he BP Portrait Award exhibition at the National Portait Gallery this week and Mr M liked the ones that look so like photographs that it's hard to tell the difference. Much as I admire the artistry, I do find them a bit creepy. I like the slightly more impressionistic ones.  There was one that had a face shape but no features; just a few brush strokes which I thought was awful. Can any of you artists out there explain to me what the criteria might be for being chosen out of the thousands of entries to the final 53 that made it?

From my untutored observations if the "fine art" world there is little rhyme or reason for their choices. I once watched a prog with George Melly, the famous jazz singer (who sounded like a drain being force cleaned,) and some old bird who smoked cigars discussing art in a most pretentious and supercilious way. Utter BS to me!

Some I can underdtand but a lot just goes over my head. As you imply, Essie, whilst being impressed with the technical skill the "art" content often seems elusive.

Have you ever heard of avant-garde painter who goes by the name of Pierre Brassau?

One art critic said of his work:

Pierre Brassau paints with powerful strokes, but also with clear determination. His brush strokes twist with furious fastidiousness. Pierre is an artist who performs with the delicacy of a ballet dancer.

Pierre Brassau

[Guardian85]

Turns out she didn't have a stroke, but a pretty severe brain hemmorage. Now a week late she can't speak coherently, is still paralyzed in her left side and apparently can't recognize people.
Don't know how this ends, but no realistic possibility is good.

Oh man, I'm so sorry guardian. Will be thinking of you guys. Where is she now, still in the hospital?

Yeah. Still in hospital. If she gets well enough she'll probably have to go into a long-term care facility. The sad part is that her mother ended up there as well, and my grandmother swore she'd never live like that.

[Dave]

Went to he BP Portrait Award exhibition at the National Portait Gallery this week and Mr M liked the ones that look so like photographs that it's hard to tell the difference. Much as I admire the artistry, I do find them a bit creepy. I like the slightly more impressionistic ones.  There was one that had a face shape but no features; just a few brush strokes which I thought was awful. Can any of you artists out there explain to me what the criteria might be for being chosen out of the thousands of entries to the final 53 that made it?

From my untutored observations if the "fine art" world there is little rhyme or reason for their choices. I once watched a prog with George Melly, the famous jazz singer (who sounded like a drain being force cleaned,) and some old bird who smoked cigars discussing art in a most pretentious and supercilious way. Utter BS to me!

Some I can underdtand but a lot just goes over my head. As you imply, Essie, whilst being impressed with the technical skill the "art" content often seems elusive.

Have you ever heard of avant-garde painter who goes by the name of Pierre Brassau?

One art critic said of his work:

Pierre Brassau paints with powerful strokes, but also with clear determination. His brush strokes twist with furious fastidiousness. Pierre is an artist who performs with the delicacy of a ballet dancer.

Pierre Brassau

Didn't recognise the name but remember the incudent.

Purely abstract art, in its definitiion of, "relating to or denoting art that does not attempt to represent external reality, but rather seeks to achieve its effect using shapes, colours, and textures."  does little for me, I see it only as something I find unreadable about the artist's mental status. Other may seek to read it  through the filter of their own perception - and all of them probably get it wrong! I would not bother, the shape might resonate with something in my mind or not, so Pierre's output will have a good a chance of doing so as that of a human brush wielder.

In the final analysis, for me at least, art might have value in the technical, spiritual, emotional or intellectual areas. But that only in my perception, the perception of another is of academic interest only - why was it "crap" to him but attractive to me? A question of psychology as much as anything else, nothing to do with the piece itself as an objective entity, a collection of substances arranged in a particular manner.