heeey all. newbie here. plus a question most of us face!

[technix]

Hey everyone. Relieved I'm finally reaching out a bit!
Sticking to the cookie cutter intro.. I was born into a Christian family, attended church weekly, maybe, none the less I was in a house of believers. Being 5-6-7 years old in Sunday school I remember believing the children books with an attitude of "I'm little! These well like-dressed adults reading to us sure are smart, and nice to me! and I get snacks..." of course I believed what they said  :bananacolor:
tech

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome technix!

IRL I don't talk about my beliefs at all, just online.

[Tank]

Hi technix

Well I was brought up by a mild Christian Mother and an Atheist Father, so I got a balenced view and I settled for a rational world view not a superstitious one. But I never had to explain my choise to anybody, it was juat the way I am and in the UK people don't discuss religion as they do in the US. Apart from evangelicals one would not know what a persons beliefs are.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

[terranus]

living in the heart of the conservative midwest and all

It shows.
Not trying to tell you how to live your life or anything, but methinks you should be more open/honest about your beliefs, stir up some controversy. Then you will be able to witness more of the dark side of Christianity.

Bonvenon al la Forumo!
[spoiler:360pwxs3]Welcome to the Forum![/spoiler:360pwxs3]

[Melmoth]

Just don't get emotional about it. Dealing with Christians is like dealing with bad salesmen - most of them know they're talking crap, which is why they're so sensitive about dissent. They'll try to use emotional leverage, irritate you, make you into the bad guy, but so long as you keep a dead-pan, calm civility about you then there's nothing they can criticise you for.

Well I was brought up by a mild Christian Mother and an Atheist Father, so I got a balenced view and I settled for a rational world view not a superstitious one. But I never had to explain my choise to anybody, it was juat the way I am and in the UK people don't discuss religion as they do in the US. Apart from evangelicals one would not know what a persons beliefs are.

Er... that sort of depends on where you are. Northampton's quite a religious area - the Christians here do get outspoken. Before I moved here I'd never seen or heard of a British fundie; now there's a "Christian Science" center just around the corner from my house. I don't know what that is, exactly, but it can't be healthy. Christian groups pester you on the street, they target some by email (if you're part of a large organisation which has your email, eg. the university), some on Facebook, and not in the cheery tea-and-biscuits way that they're supposed to.

I hate the smug "you do know you're going to hell though, right?" approach most of all. It usually comes from younger people, fresh converts, who haven't done much evangelising in the past and don't yet realise they haven't got a leg to stand on. I prefer it when they're angry and aggressive, when they don't let me get a word in edgeways, because at least thay're not overestimating themselves.

[Will]

Welcome!

How have some of you addressed your immediate family or close friends about your beliefs? How do you deal with those who take offense, or those that you may hurt by telling your beliefs?

I told my family. First I told my brother, who it turns out is also an atheist, then I told my mother, then my father, stepmother and stepbrothers. I've not told my grandmother yet, but she hasn't asked. I think my dad, a Lutheran pastor, took it a bit hard, but he was very quiet about it. Over time, during a series of discussions, I think we've come to an understanding. He probably doesn't think about the fact that according to his world view, his son is going to be tortured for eternity for the heinous crime of apostasy (simply not believing).

Before saying anything to anyone, though, I carefully considered how they might react based on what I knew of them. If I believed the reaction would ultimately be highly negative, I probably wouldn't volunteer the information. I don't know how my grandmother would respond, so I don't say anything. If she asks, though, I won't lie.

[Tank]

This thread may be of a little use viewtopic.php?p=69387#p69387

[technix]

Wow Tank, thanks! That should get shrunk down to wallet size for all of us to print off..

Just don't get emotional about it. Dealing with Christians is like dealing with bad salesmen - most of them know they're talking crap, which is why they're so sensitive about dissent. They'll try to use emotional leverage, irritate you, make you into the bad guy, but so long as you keep a dead-pan, calm civility about you then there's nothing they can criticise you for.

Melmoth, I find myself letting my emotions take my train of conversation.. Most commonly, some coincidence will happen and I'll be approached with an,
them: You see? Theres no way that THAT could happen at that exact time."
me: (I start smirking) "..oh..yeah?"
them: Yeah! I mean thats just how i know sometimes..
me: (no response, smirk still held, maybe a swift chuckle)
them: Ya know?
me: Yeah man..
them: (wait what, did he smirk at me believing, whoa, is he an atheist?)

Seeing their expression change instantly from the topic at hand to defending their belief in parallel to their tone changing from confident and knowing to and unsure defending one, is all too much for me. For better or for worse, I really don't feel too poorly about my smirks. Had god not been brought up in a "hey, i dont really believe this but when i see coincidences it gives me butterflies, so reinforce my belief" type of way, I probably wouldn't have laughed.

How do you deal with these situations, where a believer may initially expect your belief in god? drop the hammer??

[Whitney]

I don't have any family members, friends, or collegues who try to push their religion on me so I return the favor by not trying to deconvert those who are religious (though I will tactfully point out issues if they make an incorrect statement about evolution or what not).

[Melmoth]

Melmoth, I find myself letting my emotions take my train of conversation.. Most commonly, some coincidence will happen and I'll be approached with an,
them: You see? Theres no way that THAT could happen at that exact time."
me: (I start smirking) "..oh..yeah?"
them: Yeah! I mean thats just how i know sometimes..
me: (no response, smirk still held, maybe a swift chuckle)
them: Ya know?
me: Yeah man..
them: (wait what, did he smirk at me believing, whoa, is he an atheist?)

Seeing their expression change instantly from the topic at hand to defending their belief in parallel to their tone changing from confident and knowing to and unsure defending one, is all too much for me. For better or for worse, I really don't feel too poorly about my smirks. Had god not been brought up in a "hey, i dont really believe this but when i see coincidences it gives me butterflies, so reinforce my belief" type of way, I probably wouldn't have laughed.

How do you deal with these situations, where a believer may initially expect your belief in god? drop the hammer??

If someone was smirking at me as if they knew something that I didn't, without being candid about what they were thinking, then I'd feel pretty uncertain and defensive too. Actually, I'd get very irritated, very quickly. That's not some nutty Christian behaviour, it's just the way people generally react to getting sneered at.

Difficult to resist though, I agree. Especially with the more hard-boiled believers. I just try to remember that I'm no more rational than they are, ultimately. Like them, I'm only capable of being rational, some meagre percentage of the time, when it suits me, or when it makes me look good, but overall I'm driven by irrational forces. Ultimately, even my attempts to be 'rational' are motivated by my emotional wants and needs. Most importantly, and again just like with them, my intellectual failures are invisible to me. Being able to see through one particular issue, eg. the non-existence of God, does not place me on a pedestal. Just as being confused or misguided on something equally specific would not make me an idiot.


If the final question was directed at me, by the way, then yes, I'd just flatly correct them. Assuming it was relevant. Then afterwards, I'd address whatever point they were making before, diplomatically, and from my own point of view. That bit's easier than it sounds. You can always treat their beliefs as hypothetically true, for the fun of it. Eg.

them: do you think dogs go to heaven? They must do, surely!
me: I don't really believe in heaven. But if I did then yes, I'm sure that dogs would go there.

Easy-peasy lemon-squeesy.

[Gasturbine]

While I respect everybodies right to worship, the scourge of religion can not be ignored.

It, in its self, has been responsible for more death, pillage, destruction, and turmoil then any other venue on our little unremarkable blue marble.

The phenomenon of religion has always interested me. The issue is actually quite simple...when man gained the intellect to become self aware, he asked the obvious question "Why am I here?". Of course, back in the day, they did not have the science or even the basic understanding of the cosmos. Creation was all the understood, thus, that was the accepted belief...basically through attrition. It continues today because it is taught to us by our parents. And who do children trust the most anyway? They teach us we are created by God and we must pray to him for just about everything, and if we dont, we will be banished into eternal damnation.

Fear...the tool of religious teaching.