Confused Teenager

[Velma]

There was actually a period of a couple months where my mind went full fundamentalist.  I fell victim to "fundylogic".  Fundylogic, in a nutshell, is thinking inside of one box (Christianity), never escaping it.  You're stuck and that box and never consider arguments from the other boxes.

You are told to put away your critical thinking.  Asking questions is Satan trying to mislead you.  Science is Satan.  History is Satan.  The Atheists (and Liberal Christians for that matter) are evil people trying to get you sent to hell.  Questioning your beliefs is exactly how you play into your hands.  Don't even talk to them!  Ignore them!  Stay away!

Now, I know this sounds stupid, but barely being a teenager then, it left long lasting scars which gave birth to my anxiety disorder.  It made me depressed, guilty, and paranoid.  Satan just waiting to strike.  

The scars are slowly fading, though.

Has anyone else ever been in this situation?  Ignorance is strength and fear is love.  I eventually switched off it as I realized that it was the perfect cult mechanism.

That's exactly what it is, a cult mechanism.  If you aren't thinking, then you aren't asking questions.  If you aren't asking questions, then you aren't seeing their teachings for the absolute BS that they are.  However, cut yourself some slack - you did not learn to think that way overnight and it will take time to unlearn it.  

I was a fundamentalist christian for years, just as Tank described.  It was not easy to leave.  It was not easy to relearn to think and question.  You will have to work at it.  I had to work at it.  Don't be too ashamed to ask for help - the wounds this kind of poisonous religion can leave run deep and take some work to heal.  You may find it helpful to find a group in your area or check online for other local resources.  It is amazing helpful and supportive such a group can be.  Find friends who accept you for who you are - that can go a long way towards helping you heal.  Tank was, and is, one such person for me and there have been others.

Some books and magazines that helped me:

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time by Michael Shermer
Climbing Mount Improbable by Richard Dawkins
Skeptic Magazine
Skeptical Inquiry magazine
Free Inquiry magazine

You may also like Daniel Dennett's Breaking the Spell and Sam Harris's The End of Faith.

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

Wow, all I can say is that I hope you can pull yourself out of that fundylogic soon and as other have put it, see those mechanisms for what they really are.

I don't think I have anything of value to offer, as I'm yet another atheist who's never experienced that sort of programming, but I do think that gaining knowledge and other alternate experiences does go a long way. Read up on control mechanisms, cult psychology, brainwashing techniques, beliefs, cognitive biases and even up on other spiritual and religious beliefs. You shouldn't feel like you have to focus on giving up on your belief in a god.  

Learn to ask the questions they don't want you to ask, and don't be afraid of them. The bible disproves its own version of god: a god simply cannot be omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and send people to hell, just as a thing can't both exist and not exist. Once you eventually see past the holes in fundie arguments hopefully you won't feel held back by them.

I recommend reading Machiavelli's "The Prince" too and see what his representation of what power evolved to become back in his day was like. If you do, hopefully you'll see parallels.

[Twentythree]

I would strongly recommend, just as you have given time to the study of religion, and conversely the study of non religion. Do the same for science. Atheism is not just about rejecting the idea of god, it goes hand in hand with a solid understanding of the natural world and the evolutionary mechanics that go into it. You see facts, or laws in science are established through a very defined process and no one scientist can conclude anything. In order for something to be scientifically proven, multiple individuals, often from very diverse scientific practices have to converge on the same result.  Or they all have to prove the same thing in different ways. Science is always getting better and more accurate, incorrect conclusions are constantly being corrected. So a solid understanding of the scientific principles of existence is a great place to start. Erase “god’ or any god concept from your mind while you are doing this study, just investigate with an open mind as see if the principles of expanding universe, mass , gravity, chemistry, biology and evolution make sense to you.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Hi

My husband and I were both raised Catholic and we were both pretty devout believers at certain points in our lives - I even got a cross tattoo when I was a teenager. My experience with the church was mostly positive (the priests that I was exposed to were genuinely nice people, I have to say), but my husband, who was raised in a different part of the country,  was badgered with heavy loads of "Catholic guilt". For a long time he was very confused, then angry (when I met him, he was very "anti-religion"), but he's now found peace and he is one of the kindest, happiest people that I know.

So, either way, it'll come. Give yourself some time. I found that there was a window of a few years where I KNEW I didn't believe in god, but I couldn't help FEELING like I did from time to time. With time and distance the fear just sort of faded away. And now my husband and I are both very happy, guilt-free and 100% non-religious.

[Crow]

Something that may help is to define your understanding of hell and the devil. As you have stated it is from the christian belief system, but where did this idea of hell come from? It wasn't present in the old testament, and the fallen angels reside on earth not in hell.

The new testaments accounts of hell vary and all reference the ancient greek underworld of hades and tartarus (in the original versions), this is where it becomes confusing - hades is referenced in the new testament as the understanding of hell, but in the greek mythology hades was good and bad with different levels, then those that had been judged as the worst of the worst were sent to a place called tartarus that was below and separate from hades. In the new testament (II Peter 2:4) this tartarus (tartaro) is where the fallen angles were incarcerated with no reference to the soles of humans going there in the afterlife. the book of revelation is conflicting against what is said earlier and is probably where the idea of satan residing in hell comes from.

The definition of the devil/satan/lucifer, is again conflicting in the new testament, it is referenced as a fallen angel that used the serpent to tempt eve, a fallen angel that lead the rebellion against god, the serpent itself, and finally the name of human sin and wickedness. However the fallen angels that tempted eve and lead the rebellion were different angels, the angel Gadrel is suppose to have tempted eve, and the angel Azaz is the angel that was defiant towards god.

There is a lot to look at on the subject in the bible alone never mind what all the different sects of christianity believe on this area. Also look at what other religions have to say as they are all totally different.

[hollyda]

Religious OCD is one of the more common manifestations of OCD.I suffered from it when I was younger; much of what you described sounded familiar.

About your OCD

1) Are you seeing anyone?
2) Are you on medication?
3) Have you developed coping mechanisms for when these obsessive thoughts occur?

It seems to me like you're fighting two battles: OCD makes everything -- even the simple things -- spiral wickedly out of control and feel much larger than they are. Thus when you start dealing with ideas such as salvation, damnation, death, life, God, Satan, etc., etc., your OCD goes into overdrive.

Believe me. I've been there. It took me a long time to come to peace with it, but being that I have a somewhat unique perspective on this issue, I'd like to help in whatever way I can. The first part is seeking help and understanding your thoughts ARE NOT YOU.

[Cmasterpuck]

Welcome to HAF!

I hope this undertaking is becoming easier for you. I myself had a hard time thinking critically and searching for answers mainly because the people I was around would condemn it. Hopefully you will find some answers and some comfort here.

[PrometheusRumiHuxley]

1) Are you seeing anyone?
2) Are you on medication?
3) Have you developed coping mechanisms for when these obsessive thoughts occur?

It seems to me like you're fighting two battles: OCD makes everything -- even the simple things -- spiral wickedly out of control and feel much larger than they are. Thus when you start dealing with ideas such as salvation, damnation, death, life, God, Satan, etc., etc., your OCD goes into overdrive.

Believe me. I've been there. It took me a long time to come to peace with it, but being that I have a somewhat unique perspective on this issue, I'd like to help in whatever way I can. The first part is seeking help and understanding your thoughts ARE NOT YOU.

I think this is probably very good advice.

After saying that, I can mention some things which have been helpful to me.

1) There is a heavy, great, deep, power and beauty in morality. The more I developed my morality, the more I became willing to rebel against an evil God. I was not able to relinquish my fear of hell until I was prepared to serve the Good and Truth before anything else. I was finally able to give a sort of goodbye prayer, along the lines of "if you are truly Good and Truth, I will serve you. If not, you can bloody well fuck off and send me to hell for eternity. I'll take that over chickenshit evil power. I do not serve power."

Some writings which helped me develop my morality:
Einstein's The World as I See It
Bertrand Russell's "A Free Man's Worship"
Carl Sagan's "Billions and Billions"
Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World"
Plato's "Apology"
The first eight or so books from this collection of Plato, plus the symposium and republic.

More as well, but those are pretty significant for me.

2) Study the lives and works of strong moral (primarily non-theistic) people. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, Socrates, Einstein, Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, Thomas Paine, Percey Shelley, Voltaire, Kurt Vonnegut, Mark Twain, for examples. There is an intense moral beauty and power emanating from moral people who do not believe they will be rewarded or will live forever, which cannot be replicated on the theistic side. When you've studied a strong moral character and their works, non-theist, especially one who has stared death in the face in the name of what is right, long enough, you will have an experience of a sensation of brotherhood, love, and awe which your fear of hell will be laughable standing next to. Also the recognition of a sort of debt you have to the greatness of our ancestors, to be able to live as we live, is humbling and awe-inspiring in a very good way.

3) Study the natural sciences. The beauty and awe which exists here in this life, in this world, is so remarkable, so better than what Christianity offers. The more understanding of the world and cosmos you obtain, the more grateful you will become to be a part of it, the more transcendent and aesthetic existence in reality will seem, and the more laughable Christianity and hell will be compared to what you have. Some recommendations:
Carl Sagan's books recommended above, and probably anything he wrote.
Carl Sagan's cosmos series
Neil Degrasse Tyson's book "Origins: 14 billion years of cosmic evolution"
Planet Earth series
"The Universe" series
Richard Feynman's "Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman"
Richard Feynman's "What do You Care What Other People Think?"
Anything else written by a scientist for a general audience with good reviews.

I'm sure you can find many other very beautiful examples of these sorts of directions here.