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Struggling to Find An Identity

Started by Twentythree, March 21, 2011, 09:25:23 PM

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Twentythree

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting to a site like this. I had considered for a long time that by joining a forum like this, I was helping to form a religion. To claim atheism actually forces you into sort of an anti theology, it is nonetheless a system of beliefs based on partial facts and therefore should be considered a religion in itself. That is where the problem lies. You see I am not opposed to the possibility of a god or gods or even supernatural phenomenon.  The truth is that we can only comprehend reality up to the point that our evolved consciousness will allow us to perceive it. It is possible that nature and reality may be for more expansive than we are even logically capable of comprehending. Logic in itself has evolved and therefore its purpose is rooted in the laws of life and natural selection that have coalesced in this space time plane, in this universe, on this tiny planet. Our understanding of understanding is still so infantile that any claims to truly “know” anything can be easily disputed and are confounded and lost in our own inability to separate our own conscious experience from reality. It can be argued both ways that reality exists outside of our perception, or that our perception generates reality or at least our perceived version of reality. I am getting beyond the point here though. I am anti religion, I am against any group of people claiming that the “know” anything about the nature of reality. However, I identify more with the free thinking models and at least the prerequisite of scientific empirical evidence that drives a majority of atheistic argument. Therefore I find myself here, not in order to fuel a religion but to help support and join in the collective education of a race still struggling to find an identity. An identity that I hope will be solidified in the understanding and exploration of our natural world, an identity that will not be satisfied until we push our knowledge to the frontiers of our own ability to rationalize, hindered only by the limits of our own imagination.

The Magic Pudding

Your definition of religion is broader than mine, I think it involves some acceptance of the supernatural.

Anyway the local commandments here, to be nice and not preachy sound OK, and people even follow them, mostly.

Welcome

Whitney

Welcome to HAF.

I fail to see how agreeing with the mission statement of this website and especially just not having a belief in god (ie atheist) would make one religious . . . we can discuss that after you get past your preliminary 50 posts.

AreEl

Twentythree,

Atheism as such isn't a religion. At most, it is part of the meta-narrative* of various worldviews. Having said that, there are atheistic religions: Raelism and Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism, to name only two.

Quote from: "Twentythree"I identify more with the free thinking models and at least the prerequisite of scientific empirical evidence that drives a majority of atheistic argument. Therefore I find myself here, not in order to fuel a religion but to help support and join in the collective education of a race still struggling to find an identity. An identity that I hope will be solidified in the understanding and exploration of our natural world, an identity that will not be satisfied until we push our knowledge to the frontiers of our own ability to rationalize, hindered only by the limits of our own imagination.

You sound poetic.

 :pop:

*a meta-narrative is an hypothesis that helps to explain something.  Evolution is another example of a meta-narrative that may or may not be incorporated into differing worldviews.
''I believe in God...it's his ground crew I have a problem with!''  -a former coworker

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: "Twentythree"I am anti religion, I am against any group of people claiming that the “know” anything about the nature of reality. However, I identify more with the free thinking models and at least the prerequisite of scientific empirical evidence that drives a majority of atheistic argument.

Well, that's why I'm here and am drawn to other atheists. Atheism as an identifier of what we don't have (sounds weird, doesn't it?) is just the label that the religious have given us and that we've taken to be one for our collective. Some refrain from using that word because it is not a statement of positive beliefs (as opposed to negative as in the lack of) which do not make it a religion.

Welcome!
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Tanker

Welcom to the forum. I hope you find what you are seeking.

I just want to point out that if atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color. Or not beliving in Santa is also religion. A lack of belief in something, while it can be a world view, is not in itself a religion.

Again welcome it's always good to have new members and points of view.
"I'd rather die the go to heaven" - William Murderface Murderface  Murderface-

I've been in fox holes, I'm still an atheist -Me-

God is a cake, and we all know what the cake is.

(my spelling, grammer, and punctuation suck, I know, but regardless of how much I read they haven't improved much since grade school. It's actually a bit of a family joke.

Jolly Sapper

* whacks the now very dead horse*

If one is asked the question, "Do you believe in God?", and you respond in the negative then you are an atheist.

There is no dogma to follow and few "churches" exist, most of which were started to give the same types of social support that can be found in the theistic churches.

Outside of the question, "Do you believe in God(s)?" there is nothing that "atheism" refers too.

Twentythree

Quote from: "Tanker"Welcom to the forum. I hope you find what you are seeking.

I just want to point out that if atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color. Or not beliving in Santa is also religion. A lack of belief in something, while it can be a world view, is not in itself a religion.

Again welcome it's always good to have new members and points of view.


True enough, depending on how broad a definition you want to put on religion. Bald is clearly not a hair color, but it is not doubt a hair style. Thank you for your warm welcome I look forward to the discourse.

Twentythree

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"* whacks the now very dead horse*

If one is asked the question, "Do you believe in God?", and you respond in the negative then you are an atheist.

There is no dogma to follow and few "churches" exist, most of which were started to give the same types of social support that can be found in the theistic churches.

Outside of the question, "Do you believe in God(s)?" there is nothing that "atheism" refers too.

Actually there is a dogma of non belief. Depending on how you define dogma

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dogma

See definition 4.
a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.

the the belief in non belief is essentially a dogma. The dogma of non belief. It is no doubt a paradox. But just as clearly as an anarchist negates his position as anarchist as soon as he "aligns" himself with anarchists so does an atheist as soon as he claims to be atheist negates his position on non religion. The belief in non belief is a belief. Just as a non conformist who conforms to the ideas of non conformity is a conformist. Clearly this argument is deeply rooted in semantics, but nonetheless in my opinion atheism is a religion with a strict dogma of skepticism.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

a·the·ism
â€, â€,/ˈeɪθiˌɪzÉ™m/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
â€"noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Davin

Quote from: "Twentythree"the the belief in non belief is essentially a dogma. The dogma of non belief. It is no doubt a paradox.
Is that like the wetness of dryness?
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Whitney

Twentythree, as I already implied...please save this discussion for when you have reached your 50 posts. This area of the forum is for getting to know each other, not for debates and this is one of those annoying topics that most are tired of addressing; which means it has a high potential to get heated.

Please don't make me have to lock or split your intro thread.  Just browse through the rest of the "getting to know you" section and participate in the casual topics...you'll have 50 posts in no time.

Twentythree

Quote from: "Whitney"Twentythree, as I already implied...please save this discussion for when you have reached your 50 posts. This area of the forum is for getting to know each other, not for debates and this is one of those annoying topics that most are tired of addressing; which means it has a high potential to get heated.

Please don't make me have to lock or split your intro thread.  Just browse through the rest of the "getting to know you" section and participate in the casual topics...you'll have 50 posts in no time.

sorry

Tank

Quote from: "Twentythree"
Quote from: "Whitney"Twentythree, as I already implied...please save this discussion for when you have reached your 50 posts. This area of the forum is for getting to know each other, not for debates and this is one of those annoying topics that most are tired of addressing; which means it has a high potential to get heated.

Please don't make me have to lock or split your intro thread.  Just browse through the rest of the "getting to know you" section and participate in the casual topics...you'll have 50 posts in no time.

sorry

Don't fret about it. If you're new to forums you'll find they are all different and this one is unique in my experience of attempting to get people to know each other before debating each other. There is no need to sprint to a conclusion, this is a marathon run so pace yourself and enjoy yourself before worrying about the big questions.

Welcome to HAF

Regards
Chris
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

terranus

Bonvenon al la Forumo!
[spoiler:91pxih36]Welcome to the Forum! (Hope that wasn't too preachy for ya  :P  )[/spoiler:91pxih36]
Trovas Veron!
--terranus | http://terranus.org--