Why Do Nice Guys Always Get Screwed Over?

[Will]

We don't, we just have to work a little harder to compensate for not seeming dangerous. As much as people don't like to admit it, a lot of women find dangerous men interesting and exciting, despite the fact they're very rarely the type best suited to a long-term relationship.

Eat right and exercise. Physical attraction is where dating starts. Being in good shape makes you attractive in others and helps to boost your self-confidence in a healthy way.

Pursue your interests publicly. If you're a big book hound, join a few book clubs and share your passion with other people. If you're into hiking, join a hiking group. If you're into botany, join a garden club. Go live your life and have fun, develop new friendships and widen your network of real-life friends. If you meet someone in one such group, you already know you have a shared interest.

Please don't become a prick. Pricks do tend to get more women, but their lives are complete shit. I know a few pricks and while there's usually a beautiful woman on their arms, the relationships they have are hollow and meaningless.

[Tank]

Now what could she possibly see in him?

[SSY]

Also, I ALWAYS pay for lunch whenever I'm eating out with a girl.

This is why women would rather have lunch with you than make rumpy pumpy.

[Godless]

Also, I ALWAYS pay for lunch whenever I'm eating out with a girl.

This is why women would rather have lunch with you than make rumpy pumpy.

So being a gentleman is a bad thing?

[Whitney]

I don't think women are necessarily attracted to aggressive or asshole men...I think they are attracted to self-confidence that more often displayed by those peronality types.  Nice guys tend to be shy; a  behavior which does not display self confidence.

Shy guys probably do better with online dating because they can let the woman know how great of a person they are before they get a chance to make a sub par first impression by acting bashful.   Similar option to this that you should also try is to take Will's advice and get active in some clubs.  Even the most shy of us are much more open when we are able to talk about something we really enjoy and feel confident about.  

Also be causal about it.  Never ask for a "date."  Say things like..."Hey, it was great talking to you I'd love to do this again some time.  Would you like to continue this conversation over dinner thursday evening?" after having already had a very nice talk with a girl you are interested in.  If she says no, just say well, some other time maybe and drop it (in most cases an interested female will indicate if she already has plans and suggest another day that works for her).  Then ask again later if she continues to act friendly towards you, never ask more than 3 times as past that it makes you seem creepy.

I think whoever asks the other person out should pay for whatever food or entertainment is planned for the date.  I wouldn't want someone to plan something then make me pay for half without any input on where we ate etc.

However going dutch is not bad...there are good arguments for it (like that there is no reason for the woman to feel obligated to the man just because he paid for dinner and a movie).  But if that is the plan then you should get input from the other party on where you will go and be up front about reasons for going dutch.  Since most women are feminists this should go over well unless they are just using you for a free dinner.

p.s.  paying or not paying for dinner will not affect whether a nice intelligent girl sleeps with you or not.  If the concern is to bag a dumb slut; paying for dinner is your best bet.

[Tank]

Following on from Whitny's. Don't ask "Are you free on Saturday?" ask "When are you next free?". The former gives a get out, the later requires the lady to put her cards on the table by flatly refusing to see you again, or not as the case may be.

There was a discussion on another forum about how to get out of the friend zone. One solution that would be guaranteed to work was suggested. Arrange to get caught having a...  You'll be out of the friend zone, one way or the other!  

[Will]

I don't think women are necessarily attracted to aggressive or asshole men...I think they are attracted to self-confidence that more often displayed by those peronality types.  Nice guys tend to be shy; a  behavior which does not display self confidence.

I don't mean that women are attracted to assholes, but more dangerous men do tend to attract more women. Let me put it this way:
 

Indiana Jones on the left is in action mode. He's armed, he's running, he's hijacking trucks, he's fighting Nazis, and he's saving the day. Indiana Jones on the right is a professor of archeology, utterly fascinated by antiquities and history, who does his best to inspire students and share his fascination. Which is more sexy?

[Whitney]

I've always felt more comfortable with, and therefore more attracted to, the professor types.  Intelligence is sexy.


^not sexy...yet he is adventurous

[Will]

I suppose I'm speaking in unscientific generalities.

[Godless]

I don't think women are necessarily attracted to aggressive or asshole men...I think they are attracted to self-confidence that more often displayed by those peronality types.  Nice guys tend to be shy; a  behavior which does not display self confidence.

Shy guys probably do better with online dating because they can let the woman know how great of a person they are before they get a chance to make a sub par first impression by acting bashful.   Similar option to this that you should also try is to take Will's advice and get active in some clubs.  Even the most shy of us are much more open when we are able to talk about something we really enjoy and feel confident about.  

Also be causal about it.  Never ask for a "date."  Say things like..."Hey, it was great talking to you I'd love to do this again some time.  Would you like to continue this conversation over dinner thursday evening?" after having already had a very nice talk with a girl you are interested in.  If she says no, just say well, some other time maybe and drop it (in most cases an interested female will indicate if she already has plans and suggest another day that works for her).  Then ask again later if she continues to act friendly towards you, never ask more than 3 times as past that it makes you seem creepy.

I think whoever asks the other person out should pay for whatever food or entertainment is planned for the date.  I wouldn't want someone to plan something then make me pay for half without any input on where we ate etc.

However going dutch is not bad...there are good arguments for it (like that there is no reason for the woman to feel obligated to the man just because he paid for dinner and a movie).  But if that is the plan then you should get input from the other party on where you will go and be up front about reasons for going dutch.  Since most women are feminists this should go over well unless they are just using you for a free dinner.

p.s.  paying or not paying for dinner will not affect whether a nice intelligent girl sleeps with you or not.  If the concern is to bag a dumb slut; paying for dinner is your best bet.

Ehh... I'm highly skeptical about online dating. I kinda feel like it would be a last resort.

But thanks for the advice everyone!

[fester30]

I don't think women are necessarily attracted to aggressive or asshole men...I think they are attracted to self-confidence that more often displayed by those peronality types.  Nice guys tend to be shy; a  behavior which does not display self confidence.

Shy guys probably do better with online dating because they can let the woman know how great of a person they are before they get a chance to make a sub par first impression by acting bashful.   Similar option to this that you should also try is to take Will's advice and get active in some clubs.  Even the most shy of us are much more open when we are able to talk about something we really enjoy and feel confident about.  

Also be causal about it.  Never ask for a "date."  Say things like..."Hey, it was great talking to you I'd love to do this again some time.  Would you like to continue this conversation over dinner thursday evening?" after having already had a very nice talk with a girl you are interested in.  If she says no, just say well, some other time maybe and drop it (in most cases an interested female will indicate if she already has plans and suggest another day that works for her).  Then ask again later if she continues to act friendly towards you, never ask more than 3 times as past that it makes you seem creepy.

I think whoever asks the other person out should pay for whatever food or entertainment is planned for the date.  I wouldn't want someone to plan something then make me pay for half without any input on where we ate etc.

However going dutch is not bad...there are good arguments for it (like that there is no reason for the woman to feel obligated to the man just because he paid for dinner and a movie).  But if that is the plan then you should get input from the other party on where you will go and be up front about reasons for going dutch.  Since most women are feminists this should go over well unless they are just using you for a free dinner.

p.s.  paying or not paying for dinner will not affect whether a nice intelligent girl sleeps with you or not.  If the concern is to bag a dumb slut; paying for dinner is your best bet.

Ehh... I'm highly skeptical about online dating. I kinda feel like it would be a last resort.

But thanks for the advice everyone!

I'd also be highly skeptical about taking a WOMAN'S advice for how to have luck dating women.  I mean... really?  I think we both know better.

Seriously, though, Whitney makes a point with the internet dating.  I was so used to my short-term dating habits that I had trouble keeping a woman more than two weeks when I was finally ready to settle down.  Turns out it wasn't my ability to keep a woman, it was that I was still going after the same types of women... the ones who just want to have some fun flings.  I didn't know where to find decent women, and even though I was Christian at the time I couldn't stomach church (never did like church).  

I met my wife on the internet.  I was able to talk to and get to know a little bit about some women before dating them.  Sometimes they lie, and when they do you can pick up on it pretty quickly when you meet them.  However, from my experience most of them are pretty honest about who they are, what they like to do, their values, etc.  My wife is the greatest thing ever to happen to me (even though she is a theist).  You might want to give the internet a chance.  Chat rooms are a great place to meet some people.

[SSY]

Also, I ALWAYS pay for lunch whenever I'm eating out with a girl.

This is why women would rather have lunch with you than make rumpy pumpy.

So being a gentleman is a bad thing?

If your definition of being a gentlemen includes paying for everything then yes, it's a bad idea. A date is a mutually enjoyable way for two people to spend time together, not the woman doing the man a favour.

I don't know how it works in the states, but over here, whenever I have perused a dating site I normally encounter

De5t1Ny-GURLx

i r 22, i luv my friends and my babies and my cats( ND GETTIN SMAHED OV CORS!!!!111).

i dunt wont no pl4y4 so nly msg me if u r nice, but hav a good job and a sick car!! (2008 or later)

*Insert picture of drunk chubby girl, being held up by her friends while staggering on one high heel, flecks of vomit in (dyed) blonde hair*

So far I have not found the precious jewel worthy of my love.

[TheJackel]

I personally don't bother with relationships or dating.. It's all basically just conditional attraction, and I do not consider conditional attraction "Love", or even a road to love. Humans are not a monogamous species by nature even though such desires to be exist. However, even monogamy is still based purely on conditional attraction. Women are attracted to strong and dangerous men because they exhibit traits that are beneficial to the survivability of the species. A lot of that is natural instinct, just like it will be unlikely normal of any other animal to mate with weak potential mates in their species more than they would with the stronger ones. It's how evolution works, and thus the Assholes are far more likely to successfully mate than the nice guy. I consider myself a nice guy, and I know enough not to bother worrying about it. Though the occasional 1 night stand keeps me happy.  Though it's easier when I have a few beers in me because I tend to get way more bold and confident in my approach to women.  

But at the end the day, or night...They go home, and some go back to their husbands and boyfriends (shit they don't tell you till after the fact).

[Tank]

Never, ever, trust anybody on-line to the point you get seriously emotionally involved with them before you have met them in real life. I have, twice and in both cases it has been an absolute fucking emotional disaster. Some people escape on-line, if you're the escape route be prepared to be completely screwed over. I'm quite an altruistic/mentorish character which makes me vulnerable to people who look like they need help. In real life I am pretty good at telling when I was being taken advantage of. On-line I'm not. Now I am much more circumspect about who I get involved with on-line and to what degree, that is to say I don't! That's not to say that there are not good people on-line, they just seem to be few and far between. I just didn't realise how nasty, mean spirited, selfish and plain horrible some people can be. It's been an unfortunate eye opening experience. In particular be careful of people who are overly friendly, overly fast and perpetually seek compliments. Passive aggressive behaviour is also another warning sign. They can be unstable and emotionally needy individuals.

[fester30]

Never, ever, trust anybody on-line to the point you get seriously emotionally involved with them before you have met them in real life. I have, twice and in both cases it has been an absolute fucking emotional disaster. Some people escape on-line, if you're the escape route be prepared to be completely screwed over. I'm quite an altruistic/mentorish character which makes me vulnerable to people who look like they need help. In real life I am pretty good at telling when I was being taken advantage of. On-line I'm not. Now I am much more circumspect about who I get involved with on-line and to what degree, that is to say I don't! That's not to say that there are not good people on-line, they just seem to be few and far between. I just didn't realise how nasty, mean spirited, selfish and plain horrible some people can be. It's been an unfortunate eye opening experience. In particular be careful of people who are overly friendly, overly fast and perpetually seek compliments. Passive aggressive behaviour is also another warning sign. They can be unstable and emotionally needy individuals.

Don't get seriously emotionally involved with anyone you meet while drunk in a bar, kneeling in a church, shopping in the supermarket, stopping by the liquor store, eating at the Waffle House, appraising properties in a trailer park, ducking in a storm shelter, dodging bullets in combat, attending a family reunion, hanging out at the zoo after hours, patronizing a house of ill repute or happening upon the shantytown underneath the bridge that is more than 1000 feet from any school.