Confused Teenager

[Questioning]

I'm a high school freshman who is very confused concerning religion.  I have an odd and long story to tell.

I grew up in a non-religious household, my parents are both casual Christians.  The extent of my religious upbringing was my culture and a few childrens' bibles.

When I was 13 years old, I was curious to learn what the bible was all about.  We did not own a real bible at our house, so I read the longest illustrated one that I could find.  

When I had finished reading, I didn't have doubts concerning silly stories like Adam and Eve or a flood, oddly enough.  I was scared that my friends and family were going to hell.  I lived in a multi-cultural area where not every one was a Christian, so my best friends at the time were naturally not Christian.

Anyway, I read online concerning hell.  What was it, who goes there.  I found a site called Yahoo Answers and read what the people on there had to say.  It seemed like whoever didn't accept Jesus and worship him was going to burn forever.

Being a naive 13 year old reading the answers of zealots and sociopaths really got me anxious.  I didn't want everyone I knew to go to hell, how could I be happy in heaven knowing that Mom and Dad were crying their eyes out choking on smoke?  

This experience also got a seed of guilt planted into my head.  We're all sinners, we all fall short in the eyes of God, we all deserve hell.  It seemed as though every thing I did was a sin to feel guilty about.  If I get mad, I sinned.  If I masturbated, that was a sin.  If I
listened to a dirty rock song, it was a sin.  In fact, life without sin seemed kind of boring.

Naturally, that was one of the first questions I asked.  In response, I had the fundamentalists on a tirade about how man rejects God in order to sin and that what I was asking was evil (seed planted).

Anyway, I really didn't want this God to exist.  A god who I had to live a half-life for, a hell for my loved ones.

I was miserable, I asked everyone for answers.  I asked my parents if they thought they were going to hell, if I was going to hell.  Being CCs with a bit of pseudo-philosophy in them, they both told me that I should be a good person and that would be fine.

I prayed to God and Jesus every night to forgive me of my sins and show me a sign.  I got no signs.

Anyway, until that point, I had actually been a bit afraid of the atheists.  Many of internet atheists had "mean" things to say about religion.  They were abrasive toward me in the questions I asked and their constant questioning reminded me of the snake in the garden (thus making me afraid of them).

I'd always ignore them until one day I went on to a site called "God is Imaginary".  It made perfect sense.  I gladly felt justified in calling myself an atheist.  Although in reality, I was an ambivalent Christian in denial.  

During that time, I moved to the Bible Belt where religion had much more influence.  Due to my negative experience with religion, I was afraid of it.  I felt uneasy near churches or crosses and couldn't bear to read a Bible verse, I hid from it.

What I realized then was that I had Pure O OCD.  This religion thing which took months to play out was my first episode.

I had unrelated episodes with OCD for a year and a half.

Religious thoughts popped into my head once again and I worried over them?  What if God was real?  What if I was denying him?

Eventually, I overcame my fear of religion and started to look into it.  I read just a bit of the Bible and decided that it was dookie.

The thoughts kept coming back though, and stronger?

You KNOW that God exists.  

So, I looked into science and history a bit.  After doing a bit of research, I decided that Jesus was a myth and that I had nothing to worry about.

But my OCD came back psychotically strong with paranoid and delusional thoughts.

What if Satan planted the dinosaur fossils?  What if Satan created modern history?  What if everyone was possessed by Satan?  

Today, I come confused.  The God belief is still not out of my head.  I was not reasoned into it.  

I'd take modern history and science and use it to disprove God, but my paranoid religiously damaged mind says that it was Satan who created those.

The main reason why I'm stuck with this religion thing is not because I want their to be a God, but because I'm VERY afraid of hell.  Even if someone does a scientific refutation, I'll just think, God is magic.

I know there is no God in my heart of hearts, but I am still very afraid of him.  

When I question his existence, my mind thinks "don't ask questions" or "don't challenge God".  Its as though I am afraid to truly question in fear of hell fire.  Everytime I hear religion refuted, I'll wonder if Satan some how did it to lead me astray.  I've started to feel uncomfortable around atheists again, for whatever reason.

I read stuff like the God delusion, but it goes over my head for whatever reason, maybe my rational brain is not strong enough to handle it fully.

I've finally started morally examining the Bible and developing a bit of a scientific mind, and I must say, the God of the Bible is strange.  He'll be loving in one verse and kill children in the next (I notice my mind telling me not to say bad things about god, I don't "really" mean them).  I also have no idea how some of the tall tales of the Bible are possible.  They sound like bullshit to me.

I'm very confused and worried.  It is hard to deconvert.  Double hard when you have OCD telling you its the Devil or you are wrong no matter what you do.  Any advice, I'd like to be free of religion.  The guilt, anxiety, mental imprisonment, fear, and  depression have to go.

Also, the apologists confuse me.  I'll notice a contradiction in the Bible and they'll tell me that "this means this" or that "it was a mistranslation".  Are there any counter sites to CARM or Tektonics to see if they are telling the truth?

A few questions

Should I feel bad about coming towards atheism in the wrong way?  My original motives were actually because I didn't want to be subject to petty rules and scare tactics of a deity or worry about hell.  I've actually logically concluded however now that atheism makes some sense for something other than rebelling against God (a christian stereotype)

How do I strengthen my rational mind?

How old were you when you first questioned your beliefs?  Why?  How long did it take to truly deconvert?

[Davin]

Iron Chariots is a very good site I've found through the Atheist Experience, it was started by Matt Dillahunty  and Russell Glasser to provide a wiki that shows how the apologetic arguments are flawed.

A bit about Matt Dillahunty might help a little bit.

There are very nice people to discuss things with, I myself was a Christian so I hold no malice or preconceived judgments towards those who are or were religious. This is the most polite forum I've come across in regards to discussing things between theists and atheists (as well as theists and other theists and atheists and other atheists). Even I have slipped up into not being very nice, however the mods respond very very well to the report button. I hope you find the time to start a thread about the questions and/or concerns you have, because I feel awkward discussing it in an introduction thread.

Welcome to the forums.

[Questioning]

Thank you.  

It truly does feel like the fear of hell is one of the only things keeping me from being liberated.  

Many of the atheists I come across online are quite abrasive.  If they behave this way toward a fundie, I really don't mind, but they seem vitrolic.

I'm glad to find an environment of kinder skeptics.

[hismikeness]

How old were you when you first questioned your beliefs? Why? How long did it take to truly deconvert?

There's several threads on here which go in to detail regarding people's "deconversions" or their path towards atheism. It's a tough road that you are on, but whichever side of the fence ends up being right for you will most likely be the one on which you settle (or at least I hope that for you and you aren't swayed unfairly one way or the other).

Good luck to you, sir.

And welcome to the forum.  

[Questioning]

I've been looking into what the religious side has to say to me.  I've asked them a few questions and the best I got was "You sound very angry and sad, you need Jesus".

I'll hear arguments like "the universe is so wonderful, do you think we just GOT here or even "look at that banana".  Its like I have to force myself to think "Wait but..."  I know that these arguments are bullshit, but part of my mind still believes them.

How do I go about strengthening my rational mind?

[Alexander]

How do I go about strengthening my rational mind?

There's lots of resources on YouTube that could help out. Two very good channels are QualiaSoup and ZJemptv. Watching them will really help to strengthen your arguments in debate, and help you feel surer of your own views. They did for me anyway  

[Tank]

HI Q

May I suggest you read this thread viewtopic.php?p=74241#p74241

It may help clarify some of your thoughts.

Welcome to Happy Atheists.

Regards
Chris

[karadan]

Thank you.  

It truly does feel like the fear of hell is one of the only things keeping me from being liberated.  

Many of the atheists I come across online are quite abrasive.  If they behave this way toward a fundie, I really don't mind, but they seem vitrolic.

I'm glad to find an environment of kinder skeptics.

I think a lot of atheists can sometimes feel quite aggrieved with religion, especially if they've managed to eventually escape the confines of it. I've spoken to people before who feel like the first thirty years of their lives were robbed from them. It must be natural to harbour resentment in a situation such as that.

Of course, other atheists can be incredibly rude. We've had our fair share of them here.

I guess the road to liberation for you may be a long one, but certainly not insurmountable. There are some highly skilled and motivated members of this forum who will do everything they can to ease your transition. If you stick around, I think you'll become increasingly impressed with the average level of maturity on display.

Whitney has done a great job with HAF.

Welcome, and good luck, Questioning.

[Questioning]

I've looked at quite a bit of the evidence against God.  If I were thinking purely logically, I'd not be a Christian.

The problem is that there still is a part of my mind that can't quite do it.  It still defaults to religious belief, like Christianity is a "default" setting in my mind.  I can't bring myself to truly let it sink in that God DOES NOT EXIST.  Even reading the arguments from the God Delusion and History, I still don't have it sink in fully.

The one thing that is stopping me from just accepting the evidence is the fear of hell.  Atheist Experience covers it nicely, as does DarkMatter2525, but I still wonder, what if God really is testing people and what if God changes physical laws to up the suffering.

Part of me still clings on to the fact that God is good.  The Logical part of my mind tells me that genocide is BAD, but the religious part of my mind told me that "I don't have the right to question God" or "God is good, don't think otherwise or else..."  

Its confusing really.

Its kind of like a belief in Santa.  I actually latched on to a belief in Santa simply because of instinct until I was actually told that Santa did not exist.  Even after questioning it, I couldn't make up my mind.

My big question here is, how do I go about making up my mind and being just about sure that the Judeo Christian God isn't real.  It is easy to think that it is real out of "faith", but it is a lot harder for some to truly understand that he is NOT real.

[Tank]

Q

Being an innate atheist, I have never believed that god was real, I have difficulty understanding your worries. I'm not minimising them as they are apparently real to you, but I have great difficulty 'standing in your shoes' as it were. There are definitely people who have been deep seated believers who have come to terms with the fact that god does not exist. Velma being one of them. She believed for the the first 35 years of her life. She would go to abortion clinics and pray in the car parks on gravel until her knees bled. She was absolutly as committed as one could be that God existed and she had a personal relationship with 'Him' and totally knew He existed. She didn't shrug off such feelings overnight, she doubted for years and moved from church to church trying to find the 'Truth'.

Breaking an addiction to god by going cold turkey is not going to be easy and it's not going to be quick. There isn't a convenient switch in your head that you can use to turn off your belief, it's part of you and to some extent always will be. So don't be too hard on yourself as you shed your mythology. It'll take time and some days will be better than others. But from what Velma and others have told me shedding superstition is a worthwhile thing to do. It just may take a little while to do it.

Regards
Chris

[Stevil]

Hello and welcome

As an atheist, I lack a belief in gods. In essence that is about as far as atheism goes. We are not against any religion in particular, we are not against gods. There are many god theories out there, about 10,000 or so I have been told. Your are simply atheistic by 0.01% more than any theist.

Having questions and looking for answers is a powerful and healthy hobby, but best done with your eyes open and your mind clear.

[terranus]

The problem is that there still is a part of my mind that can't quite do it. It still defaults to religious belief, like Christianity is a "default" setting in my mind. I can't bring myself to truly let it sink in that God DOES NOT EXIST. Even reading the arguments from the God Delusion and History, I still don't have it sink in fully.

That's because Christianity has brainwashed you against non-believers. Just like any business/politician tries to do against it's/his/her competitors. Think about it. Religion is the most successful BUSINESS the world has ever seen. If Microsoft had done half the things Christianity has done, no one would ever think about using a different operating system than Windows. Apple would simply be the Jews of the computer world.

But I digress.

Bonvenon al la Forumo!
[spoiler:5hfwe7u6]Welcome to the Forum![/spoiler:5hfwe7u6]

[Whitney]

My big question here is, how do I go about making up my mind and being just about sure that the Judeo Christian God isn't real.  It is easy to think that it is real out of "faith", but it is a lot harder for some to truly understand that he is NOT real.

It's not a race, so take your time.  Whatever you end up deciding you want to be comfortable in your belief or lack thereof and these things can take time when someone has been indoctrinated.  I think that even if you end up deciding you want to be a Christian (for reasons that would be beyond me) that you'll have to get past the indoctrination in order to feel solid in your beliefs because you already know the indoctrination is there.

I was willing to question because it started as a means to become stronger in my belief and later because I knew I had to in order to ever be 'spritually' comfortable...I believed that if there were a god that the god would welcome such questioning and would readily accept anyone who strayed away via questioning yet later returned (I had assumed I would return to belief even though that is obviously not what happened) I got past the idea of hell when I realized there was no theological reason to view it as anything more than separation from god (meaning ceasing to exist).  It's amazing how much more free you are to investigate beliefs when you aren't afraid...it's also amazing how fear can make our minds hold onto irrational beliefs.

[Heretical Rants]

I'm paraphrasing something here, but hasn't it occured to you that any God might actually prefer that you stand on your intellectual conclusions rather than practicing blind faith? If a god wanted you to believe in it, it would have provided at least some evidence for its existence, would it not? If there is a god, it probably doesn't want you to know anything about it... not yet, at least. The idea of a "test of faith" is preposterous.

Anyway, here's a video that kind of goes along with this idea:
[youtube:f243s8ss]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU[/youtube:f243s8ss]

[Questioning]

There was actually a period of a couple months where my mind went full fundamentalist.  I fell victim to "fundylogic".  Fundylogic, in a nutshell, is thinking inside of one box (Christianity), never escaping it.  You're stuck and that box and never consider arguments from the other boxes.

You are told to put away your critical thinking.  Asking questions is Satan trying to mislead you.  Science is Satan.  History is Satan.  The Atheists (and Liberal Christians for that matter) are evil people trying to get you sent to hell.  Questioning your beliefs is exactly how you play into your hands.  Don't even talk to them!  Ignore them!  Stay away!

Now, I know this sounds stupid, but barely being a teenager then, it left long lasting scars which gave birth to my anxiety disorder.  It made me depressed, guilty, and paranoid.  Satan just waiting to strike.  

The scars are slowly fading, though.

Has anyone else ever been in this situation?  Ignorance is strength and fear is love.  I eventually switched off it as I realized that it was the perfect cult mechanism.