Whatever happend to manliness?

[terranus]

I mean, compare the way presidents look now as compared to how they used to. When was the last time a president actually had the balls to grow a freaking beard?

Well, I don't know about a President, but I do remember a certain former V.P. growing one after he lost to George W.

The stuck up lower to middle class guy who worries too much about his looks, isn't trying to better himself or the world, and tends to be generally one of the problems with society.

Hey there, how's it going?

I am lower-middle class, slightly stuck-up (mostly against the fundies) and yes, I do care about my looks. Wouldn't call myself a metro, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't pretty self-conscious. I am. Always have been, since I was a little kid. Not seeing how this is such a bad thing, however. I mean, I've never tried to stop another guy from looking like a dweeb, and neither have any other metro or semi-metro guys I know. Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder against guys who want to look good? To me, this sounds like you must've had some type of negative personal experience with a bad party-boy like myself. I'm sorry if you did, but there's no reason to haul off and call every one of us a problem within society.

[The Magic Pudding]

Idk, Pudding's avatar seems pretty manly.

It's only because I'm so manly that I can wear a girly (Queens) hat.

[Cecilie]

Idk, Pudding's avatar seems pretty manly.

It's only because I'm so manly that I can wear a girly hat.

You know, I didn't even notice your girly hat. That's how manly you are.

[The Magic Pudding]

You know, I didn't even notice your girly hat. That's how manly you are.

Yes, would you say this is due more to my well formed thighs or my steely stare?

[Cecilie]

You know, I didn't even notice your girly hat. That's how manly you are.

Yes, would you say this is due more to my well formed thighs or my steely stare?

Maybe a combination of both, but I'd say the stare.

[Davin]

When a man takes care of himself, I think he's giving the people he's trying to attract an appropriate level of appreciation. In the case of a man trying to attract a woman, doing things to make himself presentable and show that he has enough respect for women to put some effort into presentation is something that I see as manly. What is more manly than trying to attract women?

For a more universal type of judgment, I suppose it would be that if you (if you're attracted to women) expect a woman to put in a lot of effort to make herself look good, then you should also put in a lot of effort to make yourself look good. If one is a slob, I don't think one should expect more than that.

When I had a hawk, I spent a good hour or so to get that thing up (a good 14 inches long), spent about fifteen minutes taking it down and made my own spiky shit. That was a considerable amount of time put into making myself look good (in the eye of the beholder).

[Recusant]

Manliness seems to mostly a concern of the younger set.  By the time you reach my age (past the half century mark; more than that I won't say   ) most men have come to terms with whether they're sufficiently manly, and really don't give a damn what anybody thinks about that. And if they're secure enough in their own skin, they don't give a damn about other men's manliness either.

  If you're looking to politicians and celebrities for role models, you're looking in the wrong place. The image presented by yahoos and bozos like Jason Statham and Vin Diesel are examples of the way not to go, in my opinion. Then again, I don't think that Viggo Mortensen's image is a horrible example.  Still a bit on the "too tough for his own good" side though...

Thinking back on when I was a young buck, I don't remember being concerned about manliness even then.

 I think the fact that our society no longer puts such a serious emphasis on it is a good thing.  The manly role models and stereotypes of the past were more macho posturing than manifestations of genuinely meaningful values.

[karadan]

There's actually a rather large problem in Japan right now where too many men are becoming too effeminate whilst the female population are becoming increasingly independent, strong and powerful in all walks of life. The proportion of single people vs. married is growing by a staggering amount each year. Many Japanese men have resorted to going to 'masculinity classes' because they are being labelled by strong females as 'herbivores'.

It wouldn't really be an issue if it wasn't impacting the population so badly, but it is. The death rate overtook the birth rate decades ago and the increasing amount of herbivores is compounding the issue. It is also becoming increasingly socially acceptable to have other forms of companionship in the form of dolls or pillows. If you go to Tokyo at night, you may well see some Japanese men in karaoke bars cradling their Dakimakura love pillows.. There's even a company which makes skimpy underwear (including bras) specifically for men.

So if the OP thinks there's a male problem in the US, then may I humbly recommend visiting Japan.

[The Magic Pudding]

Tim Flannery mentioned the possibility/likelihood males would  start to change in future generations due to sexual selection.
The argument as I recall was in the past woman would have been more constrained by society in their choice of mates.
So in future we can expect the male to develop new, not necessarily practical traits due to female choice.  Something equivalent to the outrageous plumage of a bird of paradise perhaps.

[Lost]

I certainly see what the OP is trying to say. Lets take sex out of the equation. I think it is more of an argument about the difference between the OP's values and society's values today. I tend to agree. There seem to be far too many people today that value vanity (both sexes), popularity, fame, etc...and have forgotten about intelligence, free thought and self worth. I am lucky enough that I had 15 years with the greatest man I’ve ever met. He had a feminine side, but could build me a house single-handedly, constantly strove to learn new skills, how things worked and why. He didn’t place value in hairstyles, but was nicely groomed. Sex is not the issue, as it is the same with women. Some women will spend three hours trying to make themselves look hot for a night out. Others will take 20 minutes and look just as hot, but spend the remaining few hours reading a book.

[Tank]

Looks are fine but it really is what's between the ears that makes a person. I met my wife at a party and we were married 5 month later. That'll be 31 years ago at the end of March 2011. After we were married she asked me why I had come over to her at the party, my reply was 'You were tall, blond, attractive with big boobs and a low cut top'. I was expecting the clout so managed to dodge it  

[Lost]

I don't understand youngsters anymore  

I don't think I ever have! And I am barely out of that stage myself.

[Lost]

I don't understand youngsters anymore  

I don't think I ever have! And I am barely out of that age group myself.

[Asmodean]

Idk, Pudding's avatar seems pretty manly.

Really..?  :hmm:

 

[Cecilie]

Idk, Pudding's avatar seems pretty manly.

Really..?  :hmm: