WEAH! Don't Take Away Our God Given Right to Discriminate!

[LegendarySandwich]

Ok...thank you for your time.  It's quite apparent that you don't understand.

No, thank you. Truly, you have shown me the error of my ways. Thank you so much for clearly explaining to me where I'm wrong in my thinking, what I don't understand, and how to understand it.

[Whitney]

Fuck you.

warning issued...LS, you are on a thin rope already due to your comments from last week; don't push it.

[LegendarySandwich]

As I understand it, we have marriage and marriage benefits to promote childbearing and families. However, our Earth is already overpopulated enough. We don't need to promote childbearing -- we have enough children. And it's not like if we magically take away the benefits of marriage, people will stop reproducing.

As for families...unmarried people are already allowed to have children and raise them, so this is a moot point. We could perhaps provide incentives for people with a stable household and children, however.

[terranus]

In the military, you don't get any marriage benefits unless the marriage is officially recognized by the state. You can get your marriage recognized by the church all you want. Hell you can get it recognized by 20 different churches. But to the military, that doesn't matter. Unless the state says you are married, no benefits for your spouse. Period.

I like being able to visit my husband in the hospital (if he were to be in one) and don't want to have to claim I am religiously married...so I'd like to keep the institution secular (or make it secular since idiots are twisting the laws to include a religious understanding).

Kinda agree with Whitney here. Though there is only a slim chance I will ever get married, I'd prefer the Church and other religious organizations to stay out of it. I don't like the idea of only being able to go to a Church or other religious institution in order to get married. I'd much prefer to just get married down at the Courthouse/Clerk's office/whatever.

[LegendarySandwich]

Kinda agree with Whitney here. Though there is only a slim chance I will ever get married, I'd prefer the Church and other religious organizations to stay out of it. I don't like the idea of only being able to go to a Church or other religious institution in order to get married. I'd much prefer to just get married down at the Courthouse/Clerk's office/whatever.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that marriage should be a private between two individuals, and the state should stay out of it, for the most part. For most people, this would mean that they'd get married at a church, and their marriage would be recognize by that church/religion.

[AnimatedDirt]

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that marriage should be a private between two individuals, and the state should stay out of it, for the most part. For most people, this would mean that they'd get married at a church, and their marriage would be recognize by that church/religion.

What you're saying is already the way things are.  The only difference as of now is that marriage is seen only legal between a male and a female.  It is between two individuals, the State in no way is involved (other than the perks that come by the State through marriage), people do get married in a church for the most part and marriages are recognized by THAT church/religion that allows them to be married in their place of worship.

Now...what is your point, I'm having a difficult time understanding you.

[terranus]

Kinda agree with Whitney here. Though there is only a slim chance I will ever get married, I'd prefer the Church and other religious organizations to stay out of it. I don't like the idea of only being able to go to a Church or other religious institution in order to get married. I'd much prefer to just get married down at the Courthouse/Clerk's office/whatever.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that marriage should be a private between two individuals, and the state should stay out of it, for the most part. For most people, this would mean that they'd get married at a church, and their marriage would be recognize by that church/religion.

But what if I don't want my marriage recognized by a church/religion? What if I somehow manage to find me a nice atheist girl to settle down with? If you take the state out of it, then I would be forced to have my marriage recognized by some religious organization in order to make it legit. Definitely not something I want. Plus, I'm pretty sure that doing so might unintentionally violate the 1st amendment. There needs to be a secular place for people to get married - and right now, the government is it.

[LegendarySandwich]

But what if I don't want my marriage recognized by a church/religion? What if I somehow manage to find me a nice atheist girl to settle down with? If you take the state out of it, then I would be forced to have my marriage recognized by some religious organization in order to make it legit. Definitely not something I want. Plus, I'm pretty sure that doing so might unintentionally violate the 1st amendment. There needs to be a secular place for people to get married - and right now, the government is it.

Uh, no. You'd need for your marriage to get recognize by a church/religion for it to be legitimate, according to that church/religion.

There probably already are secular places to marry, and if there aren't, I'm sure there would be.

[Whitney]

It's so much easier to get married in the eyes of the state and have that one document declare your union than have to draft up multiple documents for power of attorney, to declare that you agree to share your possession, etc etc.

[AnimatedDirt]

Uh, no. You'd need for your marriage to get recognize by a church/religion for it to be legitimate, according to that church/religion.

Assertion or truth?  Because this is interesting.  I have at least two couples as friends that have never had their marriage "legitimized" by any religion, yet they are legally married gaining all State perks within marriage.  Explain your above statement plz.

[terranus]

There probably already are secular places to marry, and if there aren't, I'm sure there would be.

This is the kicker. I can understand you not wanting the government in your personal business. But in order for this "privitization of marriage" idea to work properly, there must be some type of private, secular organization set up that can legitimize marriages. Just having the churches as the solely responsible party for marriages is not a good idea.

[LegendarySandwich]

There probably already are secular places to marry, and if there aren't, I'm sure there would be.

This is the kicker. I can understand you not wanting the government in your personal business. But in order for this "privitization of marriage" idea to work properly, there must be some type of private, secular organization set up that can legitimize marriages. Just having the churches as the solely responsible party for marriages is not a good idea.

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find a secular place to get married.

[Stevil]

There probably already are secular places to marry, and if there aren't, I'm sure there would be.

This is the kicker. I can understand you not wanting the government in your personal business. But in order for this "privitization of marriage" idea to work properly, there must be some type of private, secular organization set up that can legitimize marriages. Just having the churches as the solely responsible party for marriages is not a good idea.

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find a secular place to get married.

Huh?
I'm married officially, no religions were involved.

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

Oh my flying fuck.

There is no war against religion (Although there damn well should be!), there is a war against everything that the powerful religions don't want, and every time that the SMALLEST of things happens that might make the religious zealots uncomfortable, they go apeshit.

A person's rights end where another person's begings. If he can't handle the fact that there are homosexuals, he needs to move to another country.

[DJAkuma]

There's plenty of ways to get legally married without religion involved, a justice of the peace can marry a couple, so can the captain of a ship. Or you can just have a friend get ordained through the ULC, that's what I did.