WEAH! Don't Take Away Our God Given Right to Discriminate!

[Recusant]

Illinois bishops say new civil union law could harm religious freedom

Those poor poor religious bigots.  When will this government oppression of religious freedom end?  

Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of Springfield, Ill., also issued a separate statement late last year taking issue with a quote attributed to [Illinois Governor] Quinn that “my religious faith animates me to support” the bill legalizing civil unions.

“He did not say what religious faith that would be, but it is certainly not the Catholic faith,” Bishop Paprocki said.

[Davin]

I really don't get what freedoms are being harmed by allowing same sex marriages... the freedom to discriminate?

[Whitney]

I really don't get what freedoms are being harmed by allowing same sex marriages... the freedom to discriminate?

Not even that...the churches could still refuse to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples (and those that are pro gay marriage can already choose to perform the ceremonies; just that most states won't recognize them as really married).  This is why we need to call the government side of marriage "civil unions" and let churches have the word marriage; it would fix the problem and everyone would still use the word marriage to refer to people who make a public commitment to each other.

I think they are just upset because they aren't getting their way...they want a theocracy.

[AnimatedDirt]

Not even that...the churches could still refuse to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples (and those that are pro gay marriage can already choose to perform the ceremonies; just that most states won't recognize them as really married).  This is why we need to call the government side of marriage "civil unions" and let churches have the word marriage; it would fix the problem and everyone would still use the word marriage to refer to people who make a public commitment to each other.

I think they are just upset because they aren't getting their way...they want a theocracy.

I don't even know where they get the idea that they own the word "marriage".

[Whitney]

I don't even know where they get the idea that they own the word "marriage".

Some of the churches....I don't know.  Considering we could have chosen a notary for our wedding instead of a minister; they really don't have any case for laying claim to the word marriage.  To be married you just have to sign a document and have an approved witness sign off on it.

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm not a libertarian now, but I still hold to the idea that marriage should not be a government institution. Let it be between individuals and the churches; not only will this mean that nobody will get upset over it (gay people can marry freely, and I assume that people against gay rights will be happier about this situation), it means that each church/religion can believe in their own minds that they're the only ones with the ability to actually marry people.

[AnimatedDirt]

I'm not a libertarian now, but I still hold to the idea that marriage should not be a government institution.

You do realize that the "institution" is not the point, but rather the rights afforded married couples that only the government can give...?

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm not a libertarian now, but I still hold to the idea that marriage should not be a government institution.

You do realize that the "institution" is not the point, but rather the rights afforded married couples that only the government can give...?

Yes.

[Whitney]

I like being able to visit my husband in the hospital (if he were to be in one) and don't want to have to claim I am religiously married...so I'd like to keep the institution secular (or make it secular since idiots are twisting the laws to include a religious understanding).

[LegendarySandwich]

I like being able to visit my husband in the hospital (if he were to be in one) and don't want to have to claim I am religiously married...so I'd like to keep the institution secular (or make it secular since idiots are twisting the laws to include a religious understanding).

Here's what great about it: the hospital wouldn't have to recognize your marriage to allow you to visit your husband.

[Whitney]

Here's what great about it: the hospital wouldn't have to recognize your marriage to allow you to visit your husband.

There are some cases where only family is allowed in...and in very unfortunate situations when only family is allowed to make medical decisions.  When the person is married those decisions fall on the spouse; otherwise it falls on the parents (or closest next of kin).  I and any other partnered couples would have no way of proving we have a right to visit our spouses or a right to make decisions for them if it were not for something very similar to a marriage certificate.

Insurance companies also use the legal status of marriage in determining who can be covered under some insurance plans.

It make the legal right to our household posessions legally shared between us (at least in some states) and makes inheritance default to the spouse.

And there are tax benefits.

There are a lot of additional rights that piece of paper allows beyond just being able to claim legal marriage.

[LegendarySandwich]

Here's what great about it: the hospital wouldn't have to recognize your marriage to allow you to visit your husband.

There are some cases where only family is allowed in...and in very unfortunate situations when only family is allowed to make medical decisions.  When the person is married those decisions fall on the spouse; otherwise it falls on the parents (or closest next of kin).  I and any other partnered couples would have no way of proving we have a right to visit our spouses or a right to make decisions for them if it were not for something very similar to a marriage certificate.

Insurance companies also use the legal status of marriage in determining who can be covered under some insurance plans.

It make the legal right to our household posessions legally shared between us (at least in some states) and makes inheritance default to the spouse.

And there are tax benefits.

There are a lot of additional rights that piece of paper allows beyond just being able to claim legal marriage.

Hm. You do have a point.

[AnimatedDirt]

Hm. You do have a point.

So you really didn't fully understand...

[LegendarySandwich]

Hm. You do have a point.

So you really didn't fully understand...

Fuck you.

I understand that there's benefits to marriage. I get that. Before, I thought that we should simply eliminate those, as well as marriage itself. However, hospitals complicate that a bit, as well as divorce and other things.

Medical decisions: The courts could decide who knew and was closest to the person best. As for visitations, I'm not sure why they couldn't just let anyone in. Enlighten me, please.

Insurance: That sounds a little wrong to me. Why should whether you're married or not be used to determine how much you're covered/how much you pay/etc.?

Legal possessions: The individuals should be able to figure that out on their own, though the courts may be necessary.

Tax benefits: Why should married people get tax benefits?

[AnimatedDirt]

Hm. You do have a point.

So you really didn't fully understand...

Fuck you.

I understand that there's benefits to marriage. I get that. Before, I thought that we should simply eliminate those, as well as marriage itself. However, hospitals complicate that a bit, as well as divorce and other things.

Medical decisions: The courts could decide who knew and was closest to the person best. As for visitations, I'm not sure why they couldn't just let anyone in. Enlighten me, please.

Insurance: That sounds a little wrong to me. Why should whether you're married or not be used to determine how much you're covered/how much you pay/etc.?

Legal possessions: The individuals should be able to figure that out on their own, though the courts may be necessary.

Tax benefits: Why should married people get tax benefits?

Ok...thank you for your time.  It's quite apparent that you don't understand.