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Abortion, MMCs and political incorrectness

Started by Asmodean, February 05, 2011, 09:14:24 AM

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Asmodean

Disclaimer: This post has turned into a rant, and when I rant, people tend to get offended. If you are easily offended, consider skipping this one.

So a coupla' days ago, I have managed to get into an abortion debate with this woman who had a kid with a couple of nasty last-name-disorders. To make a long story shorter, at one point I asked her if she knew the kid would be a train wreck for his entire life prior to birth. Apparently, she did. The offer of terminating the pregnancy, she denied because, and I quote: "I decided I would love him no matter what". So, naturally, I asked if she would do the same the second time, should lightning choose to strike in the same uterus twice. She would, on basis of "Look at him! How can you not love such a beautiful baby!?" Yeah, right... :rant:

Am I wrong to look at such cases from a larger perspective than what a parent-to-be wants..? Am I somehow more evil for saying "I don't want my taxes to pay for THAT" than for saying "The cops should get the beggars and junkies out of the cool tourist streets"..?

Hag. :rant:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Cecilie

I find your avatar appropriate. He looks pissed off.
The world's what you create.

Asmodean

Quote from: "Cecilie"I find your avatar appropriate. He looks pissed off.
Oh, I edited out about a page of sociopathic ravings which originally followed the main rant. Had I not, the avatar would look too bloody cheery for the bulk of the text.  :P
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

JoeBobSmith

congratulations, you are now  a nazi :hissyfit:  :shake:  :shake:
JoeBobSmith

JoeBobSmith

quoted for record

Quote from: "Asmodean"Disclaimer: This post has turned into a rant, and when I rant, people tend to get offended. If you are easily offended, consider skipping this one.

So a coupla' days ago, I have managed to get into an abortion debate with this woman who had a kid with a couple of nasty last-name-disorders. To make a long story shorter, at one point I asked her if she knew the kid would be a train wreck for his entire life prior to birth. Apparently, she did. The offer of terminating the pregnancy, she denied because, and I quote: "I decided I would love him no matter what". So, naturally, I asked if she would do the same the second time, should lightning choose to strike in the same uterus twice. She would, on basis of "Look at him! How can you not love such a beautiful baby!?" Yeah, right... :rant:

Am I wrong to look at such cases from a larger perspective than what a parent-to-be wants..? Am I somehow more evil for saying "I don't want my taxes to pay for THAT" than for saying "The cops should get the beggars and junkies out of the cool tourist streets"..?

Hag. :rant:
JoeBobSmith

JoeBobSmith

if you still have the sociopathic part of the rant can u pm it to me plz...i am a student of psychology
JoeBobSmith

Asmodean

Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"if you still have the sociopathic part of the rant can u pm it to me plz...i am a student of psychology
Sorry, no. I wrote the entire thing in notepad so I would not accidentally lose it in a network error. It was also edited in notepad and the txt was not saved.

I will keep you in mind next time I'm doing sociopathy though.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

JoeBobSmith

Quote from: "Asmodean"
Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"if you still have the sociopathic part of the rant can u pm it to me plz...i am a student of psychology
Sorry, no. I wrote the entire thing in notepad so I would not accidentally lose it in a network error. It was also edited in notepad and the txt was not saved.

I will keep you in mind next time I'm doing sociopathy though.

sounds good my friend :bananacolor:
JoeBobSmith

fester30

It's her body, it's her choice.  Just like it was Octomom's choice (she's costing the taxpayers much more).  We've also been footing the bill for lazy people for a very long time just to make sure those who make an effort don't fall through the cracks.  What if the baby was born healthy, and developed a serious condition two months later that would cost the taxpayers the same?  Should we kill the 2 month old?  It's one thing to restrict a woman's right to choose in those situations, it's a totally different story to force an abortion on her.  To me, that would be just as bad as forcing a woman to have a baby that she didn't want.

I may disagree with you but I have a hard time calling you a Nazi.  Of course, it was more personal in her case.  However, I think the terms Nazi and Hitler get thrown around a bit too much to describe people.  Hitler and the Nazis caused the deaths of something like 20 million people.  Regardless of what someone's opinion is or what political agenda they have, I think calling anybody a Hitler or a Nazi is a stretch (unless you answer yes to the killing of the 2 month old, and anybody else costing the taxpayers money.  That would be quite an extermination).

One thing the Tea Partiers don't often realize when they complain about taxes... half of America hasn't paid taxes at all the last couple years.  A large chunk have even had negative tax liabilities, so Uncle Sam was paying them for breathing.  I can't really complain about my hard-earned tax dollars going to support this or that, because I haven't had a tax liability in a couple years, either.  I'm in the military, married, and don't make enough with the current tax situation.  I believe that says more about  why we're a country running such high defecits than helping foot the bill because some woman used her Roe v. Wade choice to not get an abortion.

Asmodean

Quote from: "fester30"It's her body, it's her choice.  Just like it was Octomom's choice (she's costing the taxpayers much more).
To have the kid, yes. Still, what right has she to expect the society to be there for him since it has been known from before birth that this particular individual shall never be even one of the least productive people..?

QuoteWe've also been footing the bill for lazy people for a very long time just to make sure those who make an effort don't fall through the cracks.
Good thing. Some of them are worth it in the long run.

QuoteWhat if the baby was born healthy, and developed a serious condition two months later that would cost the taxpayers the same?  Should we kill the 2 month old?
Totally different. If prior to birth, little or nothing indicates that the kid will be a train wreck before reaching the productive age, then I don't mind paying my tax kroners for its health care.

QuoteIt's one thing to restrict a woman's right to choose in those situations, it's a totally different story to force an abortion on her.  To me, that would be just as bad as forcing a woman to have a baby that she didn't want.
Oh, I am not arguing forced abortion, just that when it is known early enough in the pregnancy that the kid will be an economic nightmare for the society, the named society should not take responsibility for it. Parents want a pet who drools and can not make eye contact..? Fine. Let THEM pay for it.

QuoteI may disagree with you but I have a hard time calling you a Nazi.  Of course, it was more personal in her case.  However, I think the terms Nazi and Hitler get thrown around a bit too much to describe people.
Thanks. Just because I say what I mean and damned be political correctness, does not mean I hold nazism as my political view.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

The Magic Pudding

I don't think the Nazis would have you Asmo, too much deviant behaviour.

The money spent on health is limited, I don't think desperate attempts to keep terribly disabled babies alive is the best use of funds.  I'd rather see the money spent on research into prevention of such things.

Existentialist

#11
You dehumanised the kid.  "Train wreck", "Pet".

If you want to argue your point more effectively you need to talk about the child like it's a human being.  The point being, I don't think you'd be able even to convince yourself of your argument if you talked about this child as a human being.  That's why you have to resort to dehumanising the child.  That's what the far right do.  That's the problem with your stance, and the reason the woman called you what she did.  

I'm with her.

JoeBobSmith

Quote from: "Existentialist"You dehumanised the kid.  "Train wreck", "Pet".

If you want to argue your point more effectively you need to talk about the child like it's a human being.  The point being, I don't think you'd be able even to convince yourself of your argument if you talked about this child as a human being.  That's why you have to resort to dehumanising the child.  That's what the far right do.  That's the problem with you stance, and the reason the woman called you what she did.  

I'm with her.

this is empathy...


QuoteOh, I am not arguing forced abortion, just that when it is known early enough in the pregnancy that the kid will be an economic nightmare for the society, the named society should not take responsibility for it. Parents want a pet who drools and can not make eye contact..? Fine. Let THEM pay for it.

you are arguing forced abortion...if ur mom was ugly and dumb should i have aborted you
JoeBobSmith

McQ

Quote from: "JoeBobSmith"
Quote from: "Existentialist"You dehumanised the kid.  "Train wreck", "Pet".

If you want to argue your point more effectively you need to talk about the child like it's a human being.  The point being, I don't think you'd be able even to convince yourself of your argument if you talked about this child as a human being.  That's why you have to resort to dehumanising the child.  That's what the far right do.  That's the problem with you stance, and the reason the woman called you what she did.  

I'm with her.

this is empathy...


QuoteOh, I am not arguing forced abortion, just that when it is known early enough in the pregnancy that the kid will be an economic nightmare for the society, the named society should not take responsibility for it. Parents want a pet who drools and can not make eye contact..? Fine. Let THEM pay for it.

you are arguing forced abortion...if ur mom was ugly and dumb should i have aborted you

JoeBobSmith, you are being issued a board warning for this post. It is totally unacceptable from the standpoint of civil discourse, and clearly outside of the forum rules for the same. This is your first warning.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

LegendarySandwich

I agree with Existentialist here. I don't think you're a Nazi, Asmodean, but you do seem to have a distinct lack of empathy.

I don't support the mother's decision to have the child despite her foreknowledge of all his defects that will likely make living very hard for him, but the past is the past -- he's born now, and like it or not, he's a person. We can't just say, "Well, you should have got an abortion, so we can't pay to help you care for your child".