Will someone please explain to me what Atheisim is all about

[Tank]

I'm curious. There was historical evidence that Jesus Christ existed. Do you deny his existence or only his powers? Will some one please tell me what you guys believe? Thank you for your cooperation.

-ChristianWarrior

Okay. I don't 'believe' in the sense of Faith in anything. I 'believe' in the sense of 'think is true' in things for which I accept evidence. For me acceptable evidence is that knowledge generated via the scientific method. If you can't measure it then it has to be a subjective experience such as love, hate, fear, beauty.

What do you feel about Atheism as opposed to an atheist? The reason I ask is that I have often find that people often carry around preconceptions or misunderstandings, you of atheists, I of theists, so I'll hang up my preconceptions.

A little bit background about me. Born in England Dec '59 to an atheist Father and a Christian mother. Never believed in any god. Married in '80. Three grown up kids and on 29th Nov eldest daughter produced my first Grandson  

[Dretlin]

Well, I'm a Christian Warrior, so I think it's appropriate.

1. To Learn about the Atheist community
2. I'm Christian
3. I believe in it because even if it isn't proven that there's a heaven, I have faith. I believe that you go to heaven not based on your religion, but on your actions and good deeds. Faith is the reason I believe in it. I don't need everything to be scientifically proven. Although I suppose you believe that too. After all, you can't prove that there's not an afterlife and not a God, can you? That's faith to me. Believing in something even though it isn't proven. I have faith that God and Jesus exist. So to answer your question; faith is why I believe in it.
4. You don't have to believe in it. It's just a discussion. I'm not here to convert anyone who doesn't want to be converted, I'm here to learn about your beliefs.

And it's quite sad the way y'all talk to me. Like I'm a child or something. I treated you with respect, so treat me with respect. Please don't talk down to me just because I have a different religion then you. As for scientific evidence, I meant historical evidence. I was tired when I wrote that. I'll change it now.

Welcome to the forum.

I have not been presented, seen or even heard of any satisfying evidence that Jesus existed. Nor any God/Gods from any religion. Your reason for having "faith" seems troubling to me. Using your structure I could insert any belief, regardless of how absurd it is, and claim it is self-justifying, because I belief it. Which is circular. Descartes fell catastrophically into this trap, and so did many others.

As an Atheist, I believe in nothing. If you wanted to see my values however, I would direct you toward Humanism.

I do admire that you have ventured into what is perhaps an unknown group to you, that being Atheists, with the desire to learn.

[Heretical Rants]

And it's quite sad the way y'all talk to me. Like I'm a child or something. I treated you with respect, so treat me with respect. Please don't talk down to me just because I have a different religion then you.

They´re not talking like that because you´re a different religion, but rather because you hit their berserker button.

Internet atheists generally react very poorly when you try to say that they "believe in atheism" on faith.  The more times they encounter this kind of statement, the testier it makes them.

Some atheists also react poorly to:
1)Statements that group them into categories
2)Statements about their beliefs that they do not find to be accurate
3)Implications that they really do believe, and are just in denial
4)Proselytizing
5)Threats of hellfire
etc

[ChristianWarrior]

And it's quite sad the way y'all talk to me. Like I'm a child or something. I treated you with respect, so treat me with respect. Please don't talk down to me just because I have a different religion then you.

They´re not talking like that because you´re a different religion, but rather because you hit their berserker button.

Internet atheists generally react very poorly when you try to say that they "believe in atheism" on faith.  The more times they encounter this kind of statement, the testier it makes them.

But why? They do have faith in not believing in a God. I can't prove that God exists. I have faith in him, so doesn't the same rule apply to Atheists not believing in God? Or does faith only apply to Christianity?

[Heretical Rants]

...for the same reason it doesn´t apply to people who don't believe in unicorns.  I mean, unicorns COULD exist, but I haven´t found any reason to believe that they do.

[Tank]

And it's quite sad the way y'all talk to me. Like I'm a child or something. I treated you with respect, so treat me with respect. Please don't talk down to me just because I have a different religion then you.

They´re not talking like that because you´re a different religion, but rather because you hit their berserker button.

Internet atheists generally react very poorly when you try to say that they "believe in atheism" on faith.  The more times they encounter this kind of statement, the testier it makes them.

But why? They do have faith in not believing in a God. I can't prove that God exists. I have faith in him, so doesn't the same rule apply to Atheists not believing in God? Or does faith only apply to Christianity?

Faith applies to people who believe something without sufficient evidence. I do not deny that God could exist but I don't take your 'Faith' or anybody else's 'Faith' as sufficient evidence for me to agree that the Christian God or any God(s) actually exists. In practice I don't believe in the supernatural at all. The reason I am an atheist is because no theist has ever been able to back up their 'Faith' with facts. The absence of facts supporting the claim that any thing/condition exists allows me to dismiss the claim. You use exactly the same rules as I most of the time. Suppose you wanted to buy a car and the salesman told you all about the car and it sounded great, but refused to show you the car before you had paid in full. Would you buy the car, would I but the car, would anybody buy the car under those circumstances? I doubt it. So why take something considerably more important than buying a car on 'Faith'? It makes absolutly no sense to me whatsoever.

You claim that a God exists and a very specific version of God exists. Admir Halilovich a Bosnian Muslim I know better than I do you tells me he has 'Faith' that Allah exists and that the Qu'ran is the true word of God. You don't believe what Admir believes. Why not? He is faithful, when he was a teenager his life was threatened by Christians because and only because his 'Faith' was not the same as theirs.

Theists make claims that God(s) exists, that's fine. But just like the car salesman I expect them to show me the 'god' before I will believe it exists. It's perfectly reasonable to be sceptical of the claims you are making as you have provided no evidence to support them. You claim that the supernatural exits (you'll have to define it first as well), that part of that hypothetical supernatural realm is sentient, that the sentient part cares about the little ball of rock we share is important and that if I don't love this sentient part of a hypothetical supernatural realm that I will end up in Hell for all eternity.

So your 'Faith' in the existance of God is not equivalent in any way to my scepticism of your 'Faith'.

[ChristianWarrior]

Faith applies to people who believe something without sufficient evidence

Exactly. I don't expect you to believe in my god. That's not my point. My point is that you can't say that god doesn't exist as a factual statement. You can say it as an opinion, or at the risk of being flamed, a faithful statement. You can't prove that he doesn't exist as I can't prove that he does exist. I believe he exist without any hard evidence. Faith. You believe he doesn't exist without any hard evidence other than the fact that there's no evidence that he does exist. Faith. Right? Anyways, I'm leaving now. This time for good. Some of you have been nice and polite and I genuinely would want to learn about your religion. Others of you seem to be out to get me just because I'm a Christian. I'm not going to sit back and take insults from the latter. To those of you who were nice to me and tried to help me understand your views. Thank you. To those of you who were snarky to me; congrats. I guess you achieved your goal in making this a one sided BBS. Oh and by the way McQ, you're quite rude for a mod. You attacked me based on the fact that I didn't know about your culture. Did you try to help me at first? No. Taking advantage and trying to make a fool of someone who is ignorant about your religion or culture defines trash to me. Good luck with your life. Goodbye.

[Ihateyoumike]

Anyways, I'm leaving now. This time for good.

[Tank]

Faith applies to people who believe something without sufficient evidence

Exactly. I don't expect you to believe in my god. That's not my point. My point is that you can't say that god doesn't exist as a factual statement.

I don't say God doesn't exist, I never had and I never would because one can't prove a negative.

You can say it as an opinion, or at the risk of being flamed, a faithful statement. You can't prove that he doesn't exist as I can't prove that he does exist.

But your belief is not equivilent to my lack of belief. It is perfectly reasonable not to believe something for which there is no evidence.

I believe he exist without any hard evidence. Faith.

That is your choice.

You believe he doesn't exist without any hard evidence other than the fact that there's no evidence that he does exist. Faith. Right?

Wrong.

Anyways, I'm leaving now. This time for good. Some of you have been nice and polite and I genuinely would want to learn about your religion.

Troll. Having been told that this sort of statement is not appreciated you still do it.

Others of you seem to be out to get me just because I'm a Christian.

No issue with Christians.

I'm not going to sit back and take insults from the latter. To those of you who were nice to me and tried to help me understand your views. Thank you. To those of you who were snarky to me; congrats. I guess you achieved your goal in making this a one sided BBS. Oh and by the way McQ, you're quite rude for a mod. You attacked me based on the fact that I didn't know about your culture. Did you try to help me at first? No. Taking advantage and trying to make a fool of someone who is ignorant about your religion or culture defines trash to me. Good luck with your life. Goodbye.

See you tomorrow.

[Velma]

Anyways, I'm leaving now. This time for good.

:mad:

[Tank]

Anyways, I'm leaving now. This time for good.

:mad:

He'll be back  

[Davin]

Some of you have been nice and polite and I genuinely would want to learn about your religion.

Then for starters, stop calling it a religion. If you genuinely want to learn about atheism, then stop calling it what it is not. Do you think that not collecting stamps is a hobby? Do you think that doing nothing is exercise? Do you think that bald is a hair color? Do you think that anything that is not blue is still blue? Atheism is not a faith, it's the lack of a belief in a god. It makes no positive claims. An atheist doesn't have to hold that there is no god to be an atheist, just that they don't believe in any god. That's it. Anything else is a misconception and continuing to assert that atheism takes faith (even when the word only means lack of belief in god(s)), or a religion (just as theism is not a religion, neither is atheism), is simply wrong.

I don't say, "I want to learn about theism, why don't Christians believe in a god?" I don't say, "I want to learn about theism, why aren't theists religious?"

Both statements are the equivelant of what you're doing by attributing faith to a word that means "lack of belief in a god or gods" and attributing "religion" to a word that covers such a diverse group whose only thing in common is the lack of a binding principle, belief and/or dogma.

[McQ]

This time for good. Some of you have been nice and polite and I genuinely would want to learn about your religion. Others of you seem to be out to get me just because I'm a Christian. I'm not going to sit back and take insults from the latter. To those of you who were nice to me and tried to help me understand your views. Thank you. To those of you who were snarky to me; congrats. I guess you achieved your goal in making this a one sided BBS. Oh and by the way McQ, you're quite rude for a mod. You attacked me based on the fact that I didn't know about your culture. Did you try to help me at first? No. Taking advantage and trying to make a fool of someone who is ignorant about your religion or culture defines trash to me. Good luck with your life. Goodbye.

Will you forgive me?

Matthew 18:21-22
Matthew 5:44

[Will]

My point is that you can't say that god doesn't exist as a factual statement.

Gnostic theism = god definitely exists
Agnostic theism = I believe god exists, but I'm not sure
Agnostic atheism = I have no reason to believe in god
Gnostic atheism = god definitely doesn't exist

99% of atheists, like those here and myself, are agnostic atheists. We don't actively believe god doesn't exist, but rather are simply unconvinced of the existence of god because of a complete lack of evidence. We feel the same way about god as you might feel about elves. You can't say that elves don't exist (because you can't disprove a negative), but you can say that you've never seen any evidence elves exist so you're comfortable being unconvinced.

[Whitney]

I would like to thank CW for giving me a textbook case to refer to when I try to describe a Christmas Christian to someone.  Joins right around Christmas time, acts all nice, claims to want to learn about atheists, ignores anything we tell them about atheists, jumps over to a new thread asking us either why we hate god or why we have faith, gets mad that the mean old atheists called them out for lying about wanting to learn about atheists...leaves in a huff telling us how mean and that we hate Christians (despite the presence of any other Christians being able to discuss without being berated constantly); might come back one more time to make a further jerk of themselves just to make sure their martyr status is ensured.

Congrats CW, you get your jesus brownie point of the day for standing up to the mean old atheists who you still know nothing about because you never actually cared to learn....or you could come back, act like a normal person, pay attention and prove me wrong