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Are Atheists Actually Happy, Ethical People?

Started by Goathead, November 22, 2010, 04:31:01 PM

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Goathead

It seems a strange question to ask, but the question was provoked when I saw the opening page to the site. "Atheists are often happy, ethical people". Hmm. It's a strange statement to make, considering that atheism isn't limited to just one small social group, but many different kinds of people. Atheism, like Buddhism and other philosophies, is made up of people are so differentiated and numerous they can't really be 'generalized' all into just one category. To say all atheists, then, are happy people, is like saying that all asians are happy people, or all women are overly emotional, or all blacks are educated.

Now I understand that atheists, like Buddhists and other groups, are linked by commonly shared belief; but is that really, really enough to just generalize and box them up all into one category? A more accurate position for the site might be, for instance, "Atheists, while linked by common belief, are vastly different people, sometimes happy and ethical, other times depressed and irrational, as can be said of most or all other social groups. It is our duty here to bring atheists, however, together, in a spirit of common good will, despite our various differences. Hopefully, the atheists who are happy and ethical can encourage others to be the same, while learning some important lessons in the process."

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "Goathead"To say all atheists, then, are happy people, is like saying that all asians are happy people, or all women are overly emotional, or all blacks are educated.

I'm pretty sure that's the reason the qualifier "often" is included.

QuoteA more accurate position for the site might be, for instance, "Atheists, while linked by common belief, are vastly different people, sometimes happy and ethical, other times depressed and irrational, as can be said of most or all other social groups. It is our duty here to bring atheists, however, together, in a spirit of common good will, despite our various differences. Hopefully, the atheists who are happy and ethical can encourage others to be the same, while learning some important lessons in the process."

Pithy is best.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

Whitney

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I'm pretty sure that's the reason the qualifier "often" is included.

Exactly.

The point is to point out that just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are evil (as many fundamentalists tend to believe since they associate god with ethics)

No sense writing a long paragraph acknowledging that sometimes atheists are bad horrible people just as all people are bad horrible people.

Plus, speaking generally all people are often happy and ethical...so what's the problem?

Goathead

Quote from: "Whitney"

Exactly.

Quote from: "Whitney"The point is to point out that just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are evil (as many fundamentalists tend to believe since they associate god with ethics)
Actually, in my experience I've found that it's actually the atheists who tend to assume religious people are evil before getting to know them, but that's probably just me.

Quote from: "Whitney"No sense writing a long paragraph acknowledging that sometimes atheists are bad horrible people just as all people are bad horrible people.

Plus, speaking generally all people are often happy and ethical...so what's the problem?
"generally all people are happy and ethical...?" Sorry but I don't think so.

LSchune

Like everything in life, it all depends on the individual.

I've met fellow atheists who are stable as rocks, leap out of bed every morning and can't wait to start the day, and are so cheerful and happy I get nauseous if I spend too much time in their company.  I've met Christians who seem like they have to be talked back from the ledge each and every day.  Then vice versa.
Steve, I am going to fucking kick your ass when I can find it.

"I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute."
Rebecca West

"Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
Charlotte Wh

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "Goat"Actually, in my experience I've found that it's actually the atheists who tend to assume religious people are evil before getting to know them, but that's probably just me.

[Emphasis added]

Yeah, that's pretty much a "gimme."
Illegitimi non carborundum.

Asmodean

Quote from: "Goathead"Actually, in my experience I've found that it's actually the atheists who tend to assume religious people are evil before getting to know them, but that's probably just me.
Those who willingly subscribe to and defend a system of beliefs many of which are considered to be evil by most modern societies, ARE themselves evil (to put it in such terms, although I detest using the word evil in serious discussions)

If you promote farts, you are, most likely, an asshole (to put it in wider metaphorical terms)

 :pop:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Thumpalumpacus

New sig spotted, itt.

Also, I regard many religious practices to be evil, while many religious people hold them to be beneficent.  The only thing this shows is that morality is relative.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Goathead

Quote from: "Asmodean"
Quote from: "Goathead"Actually, in my experience I've found that it's actually the atheists who tend to assume religious people are evil before getting to know them, but that's probably just me.
Those who willingly subscribe to and defend a system of beliefs many of which are considered to be evil by most modern societies, ARE themselves evil (to put it in such terms, although I detest using the word evil in serious discussions)

Does the same apply for stupidity?

McQ

Quote from: "Goathead"Does the same apply for stupidity?

Goathead, this is the second thread in which I've seen you utilize personal attacks for no apparent reason. As I mentioned in the other thread, I recommend you read the forum rules on civility. Perhaps I am unaware of a personal issue you have with one or more members here? Regardless, you need to abide by this forum's rules for posting. Don't bring personal issues in here.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

Goathead

You just misunderstood my question. I honestly am asking if the same applies for stupidity. So does it or doesn't it?

Stevil

I have many issues with the opening generalisation on the home page

"An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god"
I don't think this should be phrased as a mutually exclusive alternative as it is not one or the other. I am sure that believers love themselves and their fellow humans as well as their god/gods.

I like the second sentence but it is tainted by the end "for all men together to enjoy". Why men? Why not human kind? I really don't like gender bias.

"An Atheist thinks that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it"
I actually think this could be seen as belittling of believers, most likely they also find in themselves the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue, and enjoy it. Of course it doesn't actually preclude this of believers, but it could be read to imply that athiests are distinguished from believers in this way. This statement is also gender biased.

"An Atheist thinks that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment"
I completely disagree with this sentence. It is gender biased, puts a common thought into all atheists heads and a common understanding of the definition of fulfillment with a common path on how to achieve this. I don't believe this to be true.

"Therefore, he seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god"
Again with a mutually exclusive alternative. Believers have an additional dimension they could be seen as compliments rather than substitutes. Also gender biased again.

"An Atheist knows that a hospital should be built instead of a church"
This is a crazy statement. "Knows" is inferring that non Athiests are wrong and ignorant. Churches and Hospitals serve different purposes. This statement is just plain wrong.

"An Atheist knows that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said"
Again with the mutual exclusivity. I would presume that believers do both.

"An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death"
Only people who are suicidal seek escape into death!

"He knows that we cannot rely on a god nor channel action into prayer nor hope for an end to troubles in the hereafter"
Do believers rely on god? Also the "knows" bit implies a better than thou attitude towards believers. Gender biased again.

Overall, I feel the statement is gender biased and is trying to relate an atheist in terms of what a believer is. And to this regard I don't think the author actually understands a believer so the statement misses the mark quite badly.

I was initially a bit apprehensive about going to a forum based on a religious belief or stance (Atheism). I don't tend to distinguish people based on their religious beliefs. But was interested enough to do an internet search as see what atheists might be discussing. I stumbled upon this site and the first thing I read was this opening statement.
I actually thought the opening statement was quite off putting, It put me on the back foot and made me more apprehensive and critical, however I pushed on and read what people were actually posting despite this opening statement. I do feel however that this opening statement would be more likely to push people away than to make them get excited about entering the forums.

Asmodean

Quote from: "Goathead"Does the same apply for stupidity?
Those who willingly subscribe to a system of beliefs they know to be stupid need not be stupid, given that they are doing so with a deeper agenda in mind. However, it certainly can apply, yes.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Stevil

Quote from: "Goathead"Does the same apply for stupidity?

What about arrogance? You know, those people that tend to call others stupid?

McQ

Quote from: "Goathead"You just misunderstood my question. I honestly am asking if the same applies for stupidity. So does it or doesn't it?

Not buying it. The unofficial reminder to you is now being repeated.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette