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Atheist View on War.

Started by tymygy, November 07, 2010, 02:40:16 AM

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tymygy

Take this question and interpret it any way you want?
Quote from: "Tank"The Catholic Church jumped on the Big Bang as if it were a choir boy! .

Will

That's a big question. I could say, "I'm against war," but that seems nonspecific. Everyone's against war when they can afford to be. I think the question is under what circumstances you would fight. I would only fight if there was absolutely no possible alternative and not just I, but people I felt responsible for beyond the basic responsibility to my fellow man were in absolute mortal danger. I would not fight to defend my own life and I would not fight against a circumstance in which I or even people I love might be just captured and imprisoned.

I would not have fought in Afghanistan or Iraq. I would not have fought in Desert Storm. I would not have fought in Vietnam or Korea. I might have fought in World War II, but I would have done so knowing that the entire thing was completely unnecessary and incredibly childish. In response to abject poverty, some Germans turned to a madman and the rest went along with it out of absolute fear.

War is the ultimate incarnation of immaturity. War is the circumstance in which someone loses track of themselves so badly that they value something significantly higher human life. It's not as simple as madness because sane people go to war every day. It's the failure to be an adult and seek a mature resolution.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

hunterman317

We all have a desire to live free of pain. Therefore, we should respect other's desire to live peacefully. Peace is life free of pain. For those of you who would correct that by saying peace is life free of fear, I respect your opinion. You're further right than my view. War should only be waged if it is assumed that more lives will be lost otherwise. There are several examples of this in history, and they are all very sad. So, the question is when do we assume the general majority is in danger? When the President says so, and the Senate agrees. Why? It's assumed that one of them is smarter than the rest of us.
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence~
Bertrand Russell

The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion~
John Adams, 2nd President of the United States

Pray. Maybe the aliens will hear you~

i_am_i

There isn't any official atheist view on anything, is there?

My own view on war is this: it's fucking stupid. But plenty of people certainly do seem to think it's necessary. I think some people even like it. Myself, I think it's stupid.
Call me J


Sapere aude

elliebean

Quote from: "i_am_i"There isn't any official atheist view on anything, is there?

My own view on war is this: it's fucking stupid. But plenty of people certainly do seem to think it's necessary. I think some people even like it. Myself, I think it's stupid.
QFT


(he really does think that)



And I agree.


 ;)
[size=150]â€"Ellie [/size]
You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?â€"Ricky Gervais

Thumpalumpacus

It is very rarely necessary.  It is often appealed to needlessly. It is always awful.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

Inevitable Droid

Quote from: "Will"I would not fight to defend my own life and I would not fight against a circumstance in which I or even people I love might be just captured and imprisoned.

Out of curiosity - Why not?

My own attitude toward war would be - Don't start it but be sure it's you who wins it.  Thus I embrace self-defense, and effective strategy, tactics, and logistics, and the virtues of bravery and perseverence, and the nobility of the honorable soldier.  In self-defense I uphold not only defense of the body, but also of property, dignity, freedom of movement, freedom of thought, freedom of association, and freedom of consentual delight.  I deplore the suffering and waste of war, but I bequeath suffering and waste unto any who would put me in a position of self-defense, and to those who deal suffering and waste in my name unto those who plot my demise, my loss, my humiliation, or my oppression, to the soldiers of my nation, I say thank you, and I mean it.  May war one day be no more, if such is possible without the oblivion of man, but until then, may my nation be the best at war, never starting it, but ever winning what it didn't start.
Oppose Abraham.

[Missing image]

In the face of mystery, do science, not theology.

Will

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"
Quote from: "Will"I would not fight to defend my own life and I would not fight against a circumstance in which I or even people I love might be just captured and imprisoned.

Out of curiosity - Why not?
The value of human life. When principles, ideologies, and such are placed above the value of human life, it becomes easier to take a life. I'd be giving myself permission to consider killing. Once you cross that bridge, it's very, very difficult to get back. I care a great deal about liberty and such, but despite the fact I care so much about it, I care about the sanctity of human life even more. I will not kill unless it is to prevent much more killing. That's the only way I can keep my principles intact.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

jduster

We all agree that was is bad and should be avoided whenever possible, but there are sometimes when it is necessary to declare war (to defend against an unprovoked attack).

Though, I wish some people would understand that there it's not always a choice between war and peace: it's sometimes a choice between war and appeasement.

tunghaichuan

The main problem with war/violence/killing is that it is an effective tool for change. It works extremely well (and quickly) as opposed to peaceful and/or non-violent methods. Because of this, warfare is the preferred method for human beings. We have not evolved enough to get rid of the violence inherent in our species.  

War and violence is bad enough, but many time religion is mixed in and then it gets really ugly. I'm reminded of a favorite quote from Kurt Vonnegut:

QuoteThere are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.

So my personal view? Ultimately war is wrong. The untold suffering it causes, devastation, the complete waste of human life. If humanity spent as much time working towards peace as stockpiling weapons, training armies, and waging war on those whose ideologies differ, we as a species would be so much farther ahead. But it seems like it is always the same: "my god is greater than your god. My god hates your people and sanctions their destruction."

Going back to my original premise, I've always wondered how a non-violent society would protect itself from violence? I don't have an answer, although I think about it a lot.

Personally, I think war is a necessary evil. Sometimes the only thing that can be done is to draw a line in the sand and use violence if someone crosses it. I certainly don't like that stance, but I don't see a way around it.

But when war is used to secure oil rights, remove natives from their land, cause genocide, then it is absolutely morally wrong.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
- Bertrand Russell

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17,

Asmodean

Kind of depends... Far off, as long as those who start a war are honest about their causes and don't use WMDs, I don't really mind. Close to home or a place we import a whole mess of stuff from or export a whole mess of stuff to, bad news.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

SomewhereInND

Atheism doesnt effect your point of view about war.

Like the rest of humanity,  I am against war, unless someone is trying to take mine.

Anotherwords, we are all selfish.

MENTAL NOTE-Reality is what it is, not what anyone wants it to be, and not what anyone thinks it is.
Religion makes me chuckle.
--------------------------------
MENTAL NOTE-Reality is what it is, not what anyone wants it to be, and not what anyone thinks it is.
MENTAL NOTE-Make an effort to be a happy athiest.
My College Math Professor once said:Math is just an imaginary model of reality.
My Dog once said:Bark.
Coworker once said:If it looks good

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: "Inevitable Droid"
Quote from: "Will"I would not fight to defend my own life and I would not fight against a circumstance in which I or even people I love might be just captured and imprisoned.

Out of curiosity - Why not?

My own attitude toward war would be - Don't start it but be sure it's you who wins it.  Thus I embrace self-defense, and effective strategy, tactics, and logistics, and the virtues of bravery and perseverence, and the nobility of the honorable soldier.  In self-defense I uphold not only defense of the body, but also of property, dignity, freedom of movement, freedom of thought, freedom of association, and freedom of consentual delight.  I deplore the suffering and waste of war, but I bequeath suffering and waste unto any who would put me in a position of self-defense, and to those who deal suffering and waste in my name unto those who plot my demise, my loss, my humiliation, or my oppression, to the soldiers of my nation, I say thank you, and I mean it.  May war one day be no more, if such is possible without the oblivion of man, but until then, may my nation be the best at war, never starting it, but ever winning what it didn't start.

Emotional.  :blink:  Well said though.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

I don't know, I was opposed to war but my views have changed. I think that sometimes it's necessary, because it's the only way it seems. War is what you resort to when all else has failed but you're not willing to give in.

From a comfortable standpoint, war is horrible and best avoided. But sometimes we don't find ourselves in comfortable positions.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Asmodean

Quote from: "xSilverPhinx"I don't know, I was opposed to war but my views have changed. I think that sometimes it's necessary, because it's the only way it seems. War is what you resort to when all else has failed but you're not willing to give in.

From a comfortable standpoint, war is horrible and best avoided. But sometimes we don't find ourselves in comfortable positions.
...So under what circumstances should North Korea invade China?  :raised:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.