All is void.

[Quan Yin]

I don't see how a being can be one with a void nor how a void can contain something like existence even in the sense of it creating the illusion of existence.

There are no beings, this is illusory. To say that we are "one" is to recognize that all dualities, and separation are mental fictions, and mental fiction itself, is a mental fiction. Because there are no selves, we are objective reality. We are that void. Subjectivity is an illusion -- it is what doesn't exist. All of existence as we know it is predicated on the ultimate fiction.

Not to mention that even claiming that reality as an illusion takes a greater leap of faith than simply assuming that reality is, well, reality.

This depends. The Buddha didn't take a leap of self, because he was able to negate the self through meditation. Science negates the self for me. Science reveals through examination of the objects of perception, that they are unthinkable in absence of the perceiving mind -- it further demonstrates that there is no self, no mind, by being incapable of reconciling the mind body duality.

[Thumpalumpacus]

"Mind" is itself, a mental fiction.

If the mind is an illusion, then what is there to think the thought that the mind is an illusion?

[Quan Yin]

An illusion requires a perceiver.  If the perceiver is not there, then who is fooled by the illusion?

The mind is perceiving, and is also a mental fiction.

[PoopShoot]

"Taking place" is a mental fiction. Time, continuity, and permanence to any degree are reliant on mental fictions. No perception is taking place this is an illusion of perception itself.

The flaw in this follows:

The mind observes itself, and not reality. The faint after images of reality give the impression of somethingness, where all is void. Because the mind is self-initiated, self-perceived, and self-contained, it is also self-contingent, and doesn't exist in reality for this reason.

All are mental fictions, including the mind itself.

If the mind itself doesn't exist, the mind itself can't examine itself.

[Quan Yin]

]The concepts of life as an illusion and all things being one do not appear in the oldest versions of what the Buddha taught.

That's nonsense, Hinduism is predicated on similar ideas, and Buddhism comes out of that tradition.

He actually taught that everything is dependent, nothing is without change, and suffering caused by clinging and aversion can be eliminated.

This is splitting hairs. His affirmation that all is contingent merely eludes to his knowledge that all is contingent on mental fiction -- and because he experienced Nirvana, he also knows that the mind doesn't exist.

I do not intend to get into a dispute with Quan Yin about Buddhist beliefs but if anyone is interested in reading the actual suttas, here is a link to an index of topics and the related teachings.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html

I don't really what to discuss that either -- but the thrust of this is ubiquitous forwarded by all Buddhas. The ones that don't are clearly just posers.  

I'm more interested in spreading the ultimate truth around than anything, really. Just shows how I'm not Buddha.

[Quan Yin]

If the mind itself doesn't exist, the mind itself can't examine itself.

That's because it doesn't. "Examination" is mental fiction. There is no self, no mind. It only appears that way.

[Quan Yin]

"Mind" is itself, a mental fiction.

If the mind is an illusion, then what is there to think the thought that the mind is an illusion?

The mind is thinking that, and the mind itself doesn't exist. It is an illusion, generated by itself, which is predicated on the appearance of division, in a void.

[PoopShoot]

"Mind" is itself, a mental fiction.

If the mind is an illusion, then what is there to think the thought that the mind is an illusion?

The mind is thinking that, and the mind itself doesn't exist. It is an illusion, generated by itself, which is predicated on the appearance of division, in a void.

Right.  The mind doesn't exist, ergo there's nothing to perceive the illusion.

[PoopShoot]

If the mind itself doesn't exist, the mind itself can't examine itself.

That's because it doesn't. "Examination" is mental fiction. There is no self, no mind. It only appears that way.

Without which "examination" the mental fiction can't exist.

[Quan Yin]

Right.  The mind doesn't exist, ergo there's nothing to perceive the illusion.

Yes, because the mind is the illusion. It perceives itself. We are not subjects, observing objects -- we are objects, observing subjectivity. All is mental fiction.

[Quan Yin]

Without which "examination" the mental fiction can't exist.

It doesn't. It's an illusion.

[Davin]

If the mind itself doesn't exist, the mind itself can't examine itself.

That's because it doesn't. "Examination" is mental fiction. There is no self, no mind. It only appears that way.

How do you know that the concept you're preaching here is not mental fiction?

How did you get to this conclusion that there is no self and no mind?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Right.  The mind doesn't exist, ergo there's nothing to perceive the illusion.

Yes, because the mind is the illusion. It perceives itself. We are not subjects, observing objects -- we are objects, observing subjectivity. All is mental fiction.

It goes without saying that the not-real cannot perform any action at all, be it observing subjectivity, perceive itself, or be fooled.  So yeah, you can keep this thought, I'll pass.

[Quan Yin]

How do you know that the concept you're preaching here is not mental fiction?

I know that it is mental fiction. All is mental fiction. The fictions can still elude to the truth, and those fictions are methodologically outlined, in Buddhist philosophy, and practice.

How did you get to this conclusion that there is no self and no mind?

The Buddha did, I didn't. I just realize its truth. The Buddha achieved it through ultimate introspection, and inferred the ultimate truth about the illusion from that. Through his ultimate introspection, he negated the self, and experienced pure existence. He then understood that there was no self, and all that that entailed.

[Whitney]

QY has been issued the following warning after having already received an in thread reminder and given plenty of time to read it:

Please read the forum rules as well as my in thread message to you, preaching is not allowed at HAF.  If you can't engage in a philosophical discussion about the merit of the core basis of your belief then this isn't the place for you.