Depression

[PoopShoot]

My childhood experiences have forced me to put logic above emotion.  It's not that nothing matters, it's that when I feel that way, my logical mind kicks in.

What do you mean by that..?

I mean that when I get mad, my subconscious starts returning analytical data about the situation to my conscious mind.  Or something like that.  It's hard to explain.

[spoiler:1ixbqkgg]Again, a subjective thing, but following logic, I'd probably still aspire to get very dead very fast unless of course I WAS. Logic (As I can conjure it) dictates that if the shit in your life is not outweighed by the rewards it yields, the sensible thing is to end it. And if your life's pleasures outweigh its downsides, then why are you suicidal in the first place?[/spoiler:1ixbqkgg]

[spoiler:1ixbqkgg]Logic once dictated that living a short life followed by heaven was the only way to fix my depression, but that going to hell of suicide would prolong it forever.  Logic later dictated that drugs were fun and that I was too stoned to care that I was generally unhappy. Aside form that, many of the drugs I used to do increased dopamine, making me feel happy.  Logic now tells me that generating psychoses in my children won't stop the cycle.  When I'm dead, it doesn't matter to me, but logic dictates that since I care about my children (though the care itself is purely emotional), I want their life to be better than mine.  I can't kill myself at a time when that would likely trigger a psychosis.  Also, it comes and goes, so it's not like I'm in constant desire to die.[/spoiler:1ixbqkgg]

[humblesmurph]

Basically, it's doing all the things known to help lift one's mood.  Getting sunlight, exercise, human contact, proper nutrients and recognizing and stopping negative thoughts before they spiral downward are all important.  It's called the Therapeutic Life Change program.

Not to judge what may possibly work on somebody under certain circumstances, but when reading this, my thoughts generally went in "Whatta load of crap"-direction  

Here are my subjective thoughts on the points mentioned:

1. Sunlight when I'm down makes me want to go homicidal on a massive scale. The less I see, the better.

2. Exercise, while generally good for health, is likely to bring me down rather than lift my mood. Exercise always tended to do that before and I can't see why it wouldn't today. (Being physically tired is the key here - the more tired, the more miserable)

3. Human contact is good and well, but when one distrusts humans - even those relatively close - except for a few who don't really have the time for proper contact... Well, you see how a speck of social anxiety would ruin that right there.

4. I went through several degrees of proper in regard to neutrition without it having any at all marked effect on me being miserable.

5. "Stopping" the negative thoughts..? Is there an instruction manual for that?

Sorry, but I'm not buying that at all. Unless you are going through a rough patch with divorse, unemployment or the like, I don't think that there holds any water at all in regard to depression. Probably good for healthier living, but for those who are depressed due to personality disorders or chemical imbalances, the problem is usually more complex, involving social anxiety and the like which makes those steps hard to follow.

I'm not asking you to buy it. Or even try it. Just a suggestion.  Btw, the answer to 5. is yes.  Recognizing and challenging negative thoughts is outlined in many books.  Yes, the steps are hard to follow.  If there was an easy way to combat depression, there wouldn't be so much of it.  You seem to have your depression under control, if drugs work for you, I'm sincerely happy for you.  The unfortunate fact is that they don't work for everybody.   There is a lot of promising info on the internet about the TLC method.  This isn't some Tony Robbins self help kind of deal.

[philosoraptor]

Having battled major depression most of my life, I really resent comments along the lines of get some sun or go exercise, as if it's that simple.  If that was all it took to cure depression, almost no one would be depressed.  I do most of those things anyway on a daily basis and it doesn't make me feel any less shitty on a really bad day.  I feel like those kind of suggestions marginalize the seriousness of suffering from depression, on top of being insufferably condescending and patronizing.  Going out in the sun may insure I get some vitamin D, but it's not going to do shit if I have a chemical deficiency or my best friend just died or I lost my job, etc...

[PoopShoot]

Having battled major depression most of my life, I really resent comments along the lines of get some sun or go exercise, as if it's that simple.  If that was all it took to cure depression, almost no one would be depressed.  I do most of those things anyway on a daily basis and it doesn't make me feel any less shitty on a really bad day.  I feel like those kind of suggestions marginalize the seriousness of suffering from depression, on top of being insufferably condescending and patronizing.  Going out in the sun may insure I get some vitamin D, but it's not going to do shit if I have a chemical deficiency or my best friend just died or I lost my job, etc...

But nobody said that.  They said that sun and exercise HELP.  They do.  Many of the same endorphins that your body releases in response to sunlight and exercise (even mild exercise for the person who said 'getting tired makes me depressed') are the same chemicals that you are lacking when you have clinical depression.  Hell, when I'm feeling like I'm about to lose it, I go for a walk in the country (and living in rural Kentucky, I mean THE COUNTRY).  Feels good, man.  I don't think anyone marginalized the situation by saying 'but don't take legitimately prescribed medication or follow the advice of a legitimate therapist'.  I have seen a lot of people get indignant at these kinds of idea, yet never have I seen anyone get indignant when people say 'a gallon of fudge ice cream seems to perk me right up'.  Why do you think that is?

[epepke]

Is it really a sickness as psychologists desrcibe it to be? I am not sure if I have been really suffering from it or not...but I have had many 'down' periods...especially this summer. My lack of social connection with people has been a heavy contribution to my pessimistic attitude and supposed depression, being an existential nihilist.

Forgive me if I get too personal, but I have had about 2 or 3 suicide attempts due to depression. I am afraid to let my family know of this condition because they are really religious. I am only 20 years old, and I am not sure what to do. There seems to be alot of older and wiser people on this forum...and I was wondering if I could get any advice. My mind is more scrambled than an egg, and I am not sure if it's due to my transition from a child to an adult, or a genuine state of depression . Can anyone help?

Depression is properly called a disorder, and if it is involved with suicide attempts, a fairly serious one.  The terms "illness" and "disease" in modern medical parlance imply an etiology, and there is no known etiology for depression.  The term "chemical imbalance" is a kind of folk description; evidence-based medicine has given up on the notion of an imbalance of chemicals or "humours" as a cause of disease, though from Roman times to the Renaissance it was quite popular.  I think that people keep it around because it provides an alternative to other folk descriptions of depression, such as "laziness," "character defect," and even "demonic possession."  Still, it's highly misleading and not very good as an explanation.

What we do know is that various neurotransmitters, such as serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, are involved in some way, and that tinkering with reuptake (as in SSRIs) and slowing down excretion (as in MAOIs).  There are other drugs, such as lithium carbonate (which changes the action potentials in neurons.  Other drugs, such as anxiolytics, tranquilizers, and even beta blockers are sometimes used.

These drugs sometimes help, so don't sneeze at the idea.  Some of them don't work.  Some of them work for a while and then stop working.  It also differs from person to person.  Depression varies so much between people that it's anywhere from difficult to impossible to predict a particular person's reaction.  It's a complex and poorly understood system.  Most of the drugs were developed by putting rat brains in bladders, and this is impractical as a diagnostic tool for humans.  I saw one study a long time ago that concluded that serotonin receptors were more numerous but smaller in depressed people, but 1) the sample size was small, 2) I haven't seen a replication, and 3) nobody knows if this would be a cause or a result of depression, or both.

[Velma]

Having battled major depression most of my life, I really resent comments along the lines of get some sun or go exercise, as if it's that simple.  If that was all it took to cure depression, almost no one would be depressed.  I do most of those things anyway on a daily basis and it doesn't make me feel any less shitty on a really bad day.  I feel like those kind of suggestions marginalize the seriousness of suffering from depression, on top of being insufferably condescending and patronizing.  Going out in the sun may insure I get some vitamin D, but it's not going to do shit if I have a chemical deficiency or my best friend just died or I lost my job, etc...

But nobody said that.  They said that sun and exercise HELP.  They do.  Many of the same endorphins that your body releases in response to sunlight and exercise (even mild exercise for the person who said 'getting tired makes me depressed') are the same chemicals that you are lacking when you have clinical depression.  Hell, when I'm feeling like I'm about to lose it, I go for a walk in the country (and living in rural Kentucky, I mean THE COUNTRY).  Feels good, man.  I don't think anyone marginalized the situation by saying 'but don't take legitimately prescribed medication or follow the advice of a legitimate therapist'.  I have seen a lot of people get indignant at these kinds of idea, yet never have I seen anyone get indignant when people say 'a gallon of fudge ice cream seems to perk me right up'.  Why do you think that is?

Having been through major depressions myself (almost to the point of being hospitalized), I can say that exercise does help a bit.  It's not a cure-all.  Diet is not a cure-all.  They can be helpful, however.  During my last major depression, walking helped wear me out physically so I did at least sleep a bit better - and making the effort to eat better forced me to admit that I just might be worth that effort.  Find a doctor to talk to, preferably a psychiatrist.  If you have battled depression for that long, it probably is something biological and drugs could help (taken on the advice of your doctor, of course).

[PoopShoot]

Having been through major depressions myself (almost to the point of being hospitalized), I can say that exercise does help a bit.  It's not a cure-all.  Diet is not a cure-all.  They can be helpful, however.  During my last major depression, walking helped wear me out physically so I did at least sleep a bit better - and making the effort to eat better forced me to admit that I just might be worth that effort.  

It takes the edge off.  I've never ended up in a place where I have become willing to hurt my children, but that's partially due to proactive efforts to do SOMETHING else.

Find a doctor to talk to, preferably a psychiatrist.  If you have battled depression for that long, it probably is something biological and drugs could help (taken on the advice of your doctor, of course).

If I could afford it, I might.  In the past, the drugs the doctors gave me made it worse.

[humblesmurph]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

[PoopShoot]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Some of them mushrooms in your av would do me fine.  Plus, it makes your piss hallucinogenic, so it's the gift that keeps on giving.

[epepke]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Relax.  It's almost impossible not to offend someone with depression.  One of the symptoms of depression is that it makes the people who have it not think properly.

[PoopShoot]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Relax.  It's almost impossible not to offend someone with depression.  One of the symptoms of depression is that it makes the people who have it not think properly.

I see what you did thar.

[The Magic Pudding]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Some of them mushrooms in your av would do me fine.  Plus, it makes your piss hallucinogenic, so it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Have those mushrooms got anything to do with this?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 27,00.html

[epepke]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Some of them mushrooms in your av would do me fine.  Plus, it makes your piss hallucinogenic, so it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Have those mushrooms got anything to do with this?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 27,00.html

That's the stuff Philip K. Dick wrote about.

Seriously, though, hallucinogenic mushrooms do seem to affect serotonin levels.

[humblesmurph]

Um, I meant no offense with my suggestion.  I definitely didn't mean something like "stop being a gloomy guss and go get some sun".

Some of them mushrooms in your av would do me fine.  Plus, it makes your piss hallucinogenic, so it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Have those mushrooms got anything to do with this?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 27,00.html

Dude is gone. Those caps have his mind

[Whitney]

No pill popper here.   There seems to be a lot of research behind the 6-step cure for depression.  I would post a link, but that would be spammy.  Basically, it's doing all the things known to help lift one's mood.  Getting sunlight, exercise, human contact, proper nutrients and recognizing and stopping negative thoughts before they spiral downward are all important.  It's called the Therapeutic Life Change program.  The book shows how the Western diet may contribute to depression and how our natural response to depression often makes it much worse.  Obviously, a book such as this is not substitute for a proper psychologists, but sometimes we work with what we can afford.

Posting a link for reference isn't spam (at least not here).

That sounds a lot like what I do to manage depression...though I'm not always that great at stopping the negativity before it gets a bit further than the normal range.  But, my depression is typically linked to real life issues (that perhaps I worry about more than I should) rather than just happening for no apparent reason...except for winter, winter makes me sad (going to get one of those lamps this year to see if it helps).  

For me, exercise helps a lot more than any drug I've been prescribed.  Though that can be hard to get yourself to do if you feel dumpy.