A Heathen with a Bible

[Anthemyst]

Hello! I have been an atheist for a few years, now, after many years as a Catholic. I spent most of my childhood and adolescence trying to reconcile my beliefs with the world, and finally realized the problem was starting with the assumption that God existed at all; once I placed the burden of proof on that hypothesis, the world was much easier to understand. I was thrilled to find this website, since morality has always been very important to me and I think it's important to fight the "immoral atheist" stereotype; if anything, morality means even more in a godless world.

I'm by no means closeted, but my parents are Not Pleased, so I avoid bringing it up, and bite my tongue as often as possible. I've got a lot of pent-up counterarguments, so hopefully this is the place for them!

I recently started reading the Bible, mostly out of curiosity since I reread my children's comic book Bible constantly as a kid and I can't wait to see what the real thing is like, but also to build a defense in case I wind up in an argument about whether or not the Bible is the be-all-end-all of morality. I started a blog about it(aheathenreadsthebible.blogspot.com), so I'm looking to get more involved in the online community. This forum looks like a fun, welcoming and respectful place, so here I am!

[pinkocommie]

Nice to have you here!  

[Martin TK]

I think you have a good, solid start.  Being an open atheist in today's world, especially in America, can be very challenging.  By coming to places like this, you will find acceptance, challenges, open discussions, and an opportunity to stretch those counter-arguments into solid, non-combative, clear, and unemotional responses to those who challenge you.

I want to congratulate you on reading the bible, you will find throughout your journeys that most Christians will have a very limited understanding of what is within the pages of their own "holy book" and by reading it and understanding it, you will be better equiped to handle some of their challenges.  I would recommend that you read a wide variety of books and articles by both theists and atheists, this way you have a better understanding of each side.  The one thing you will be confronted with from most Christians is a lack of understanding and open mindedness.  Don't become one of them, just from the other side.  Read science articles, particularly those that talk about evolution and cosmology so you can debate the origins of life and the universe, even if you don't fully understand the math and science behind the claims, you will have the basics down and be lightyears ahead of most Christians.  Take notes of the kinds of questions you are asked by Christians and the kinds of claims that they make against you, like being immoral and such, then develop some good responses you can pull up when you need it.

As for your parent, well, mine were of like minds as yours, there is little you can do except to give them time to accept who you are.  Most parents love their children enough to adapt to their way of thinking.  But, I do caution you to expect some of those you know to change when they find out that you are an "unholy" one.  Some will simply walk away, because their religion tells them to, others will shy away, but will often come back once they realize you are still the same person.  And finally, I promise you will be surprised by some, some you are sure will not accept you, will fool you and simply love you for who you are, not for whom they want you to be.  Good luck

[The Black Jester]

+1 Martin TK, good advice, as usual.

And welcome, Anthemyst!

[hismikeness]

.

First off, excellent post TK. A GREAT read.

I want to congratulate you on reading the bible, you will find throughout your journeys that most Christians will have a very limited understanding of what is within the pages of their own "holy book" and by reading it and understanding it, you will be better equiped to handle some of their challenges.  I would recommend that you read a wide variety of books and articles by both theists and atheists, this way you have a better understanding of each side.  The one thing you will be confronted with from most Christians is a lack of understanding and open mindedness.  Don't become one of them, just from the other side.  Read science articles, particularly those that talk about evolution and cosmology so you can debate the origins of life and the universe, even if you don't fully understand the math and science behind the claims, you will have the basics down and be lightyears ahead of most Christians.  Take notes of the kinds of questions you are asked by Christians and the kinds of claims that they make against you, like being immoral and such, then develop some good responses you can pull up when you need it.

I want to tell my nephew this right after he's confirmed as a Catholic by my older brother and his wife. That'll be like 12 years from now, so... saved it to my iPod notes! I'm pretty sure I will have one of those iAnythings that that note can sync to in 12 years still.

But, I do caution you to expect some of those you know to change when they find out that you are an "unholy" one.  Some will simply walk away, because their religion tells them to, others will shy away,

I haven't experienced this yet, and I've told 4 or 5 people, only my little brother and wife as far as family is concerned. I told her family, especially her bible thumping, ultra-preachy non-denominationals that just Craiglisted some trex decking for us for $900 bucks with the expressed agreement that they could keep 20% of what he sold it for since he's knows people in the industry because he's a "lawn and garden guy". Real moral assface.

Anyway, I find if you challenge them from the perspective of being confused (and you will be, by their irrational holdings-on despite clear evidence) and maybe a little condescending at the right time, all while keeping it jovial, when you finally say you're an atheist, they aren't surprised. People who don't know you, don't need to know. But if those people that don't know you bring it up first, well that means they're preaching... crack an egg of knowledge!

some will fool you and simply love you for who you are, not for whom they want you to be.

Again, really well said. That sounds like how my mom will react. I hope.

Hismikeness



PS: Thank jeebus for Command-Z (or Ctrl-Z on windows I think) undo function. I was manipulating the quotes and such using drag and highlight, my mouse slipped, hilighted everything above Anyway and I hit delete, almost nearly losing my whole post. I might have cried a bit.

[Tank]

Hello Anthemyst

I have been on a number of atheist forums and this is one of the better ones, in particular the unhesitating attitude of keeping out the worst of the theistic trolls and preachers, you have landed on your feet here!

Welcome aboard.

Useful links for new members
Mission Statement Why this place is here.
Forum Rules More of a set of guidelines really, upset Whitney (She who must be obeyed) and you'll find the exit door very quickly!
How do I use the quote feature? If you are new to forums this is an important feature to understand. The maximum number of nested quotes is 3.
Help desk. Any problems this is where to ask them.
What's on your mind today? The general chit chat thread.
Somewhere to discuss the fear of dying. Many ex-theists have to come to terms with death, this is a place to discuss this issue.
How to tell your family you are an atheist. Some suggestions about how to deal with this thorny issue.
Parenting Beyond Belief. The forum for discussing how to raise your children 'Faith Free'.
.

[Anthemyst]

I think you have a good, solid start.  Being an open atheist in today's world, especially in America, can be very challenging.  By coming to places like this, you will find acceptance, challenges, open discussions, and an opportunity to stretch those counter-arguments into solid, non-combative, clear, and unemotional responses to those who challenge you.

I want to congratulate you on reading the bible, you will find throughout your journeys that most Christians will have a very limited understanding of what is within the pages of their own "holy book" and by reading it and understanding it, you will be better equiped to handle some of their challenges.  I would recommend that you read a wide variety of books and articles by both theists and atheists, this way you have a better understanding of each side.  The one thing you will be confronted with from most Christians is a lack of understanding and open mindedness.  Don't become one of them, just from the other side.  Read science articles, particularly those that talk about evolution and cosmology so you can debate the origins of life and the universe, even if you don't fully understand the math and science behind the claims, you will have the basics down and be lightyears ahead of most Christians.  Take notes of the kinds of questions you are asked by Christians and the kinds of claims that they make against you, like being immoral and such, then develop some good responses you can pull up when you need it.

As for your parent, well, mine were of like minds as yours, there is little you can do except to give them time to accept who you are.  Most parents love their children enough to adapt to their way of thinking.  But, I do caution you to expect some of those you know to change when they find out that you are an "unholy" one.  Some will simply walk away, because their religion tells them to, others will shy away, but will often come back once they realize you are still the same person.  And finally, I promise you will be surprised by some, some you are sure will not accept you, will fool you and simply love you for who you are, not for whom they want you to be.  Good luck

Thank you so much! This was very thoughtful and touching. I've been lucky in that I've been questioning things my whole life; even when I was still firmly Catholic I had independently reasoned out why morality was independent from religion, and such, and I've never had difficulty holding my own in an argument. And I've been lucky in having friends that are likeminded and/or accepting, so outside of my family it's been a fairly positive experience. Still, I'm looking forward to learning more!

[The Magic Pudding]

I think it's important to fight the "immoral atheist" stereotype;

Old Fred knocks that sterotype over.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 1115519873
Greetings