A god who existed forever

[TheJackel]

Energy can not exist in the form of a negative existence..

From what you have written, it's not clear to me that "negative existence" is even a meaningful concept.  What does "-1-dimensional" actually mean?  Can you have "2-dimensional existence" or "3-dimensional existence"?  What exactly is the connection between existence and dimensionality that you are implicitly referring to?  Basically, I haven't a clue what it is you're talking about.   :crazy: This is apparently to complicated for you to grasp.

And a negative existence isn't a meaningful concept because it's not possible to exist :yay:

Thus it's impossible to be outside of space, time, or material physicality.. You can't exist in a place of non-existence to which is made of nothing. Nor can you exist outside of time and have any sort of functionality, process,  inertia, ability, or motion.. Thus, the notion of a GOD existing out side of space, time, and material physicality is entirely laughable.  Theists are basically stating their GOD doesn't exist while claiming it magically does.  

[TheJackel]

:pop: sits back to watch the fun, don't mind me.

I have a feeling this is going to be the most mind-boggling thread ever.  Negative existence, "self-osculating energy", ...   :hmm:  

This is hardly crazy.. Energy in fact self-osculates, and this is a fundamental property and attribute of energy itself. You should educate yourself on quantum electrodynamics, emergence, the butterfly effect, and chaos theory. There is a reason why you can't light a match without electromagnetism, or put one out with water without electromagnetism. You should also read up on quantum electrodynamics and why the only force that has yet to be unified with the 3 other unified forces is gravity.. And gravity is starting to show it's roots in quantum gravity, and particle physics. However, unifying gravity runs the risk of blowing ourselves up according to Steven Hawking.. Hence, the origins of the phenomenon are unlocked via particle collisions within particle colliders..

Also Gravity isn't even necessary to support life, and neither is the weak force. We can grow things in zero G without a problem. And things like the water bear can even survive in the vacuum of space for 11 days without protection from cosmic radiation and have shown to be likely possible to survive deep within comets ectra or other bodies that could provide protection from cosmic radiation.

[Jack's Disciple]

Wow, to make this simple for you..You need a place to exist LOL, and it's not possible to have a literal no-place of existence son.. Dimensionality is the representation of spatial space, and what part about that do you not comprehend  lol.. I can't imagine how you can not follow this very basic concept..

Negative existence = -1 dimensional, -1 enegy, -1 spatial space, non-material, nothing, non-existence, non-existent, and simply not possible to be a person, place, thing, object, or substance.

I see.  So basically all you're saying is that something can only exist if it has a location.  You have chosen a very long-winded and bizarre way of saying that.  Apparently "negative existence" for you is simply "non-existence".  But non-existence is a meaningful concept, and what it has to do with "-1 dimensional space" I haven't the foggiest.  Something either exists or it doesn't.  Something is either extended in an n-dimensional space* or it isn't (n≥0).  There seems no  reason a priori why we should reject the notion of an object that exists and is not extended in space.  Indeed, there are plenty of abstract objects that many philosophers throughout history have considered to fit into that category.  All you have done is state that "you need a place to exist".  That is far from a self-evident truth, and you will need to make some kind of argument to support it.

*It is unclear whether "space" for you refers to physical space or just space in general - you will need to clarify this before you make an argument.  In fact generally you will need to define concepts more clearly than you have thus far.

[McQ]

Wow, to make this simple for you..You need a place to exist LOL, and it's not possible to have a literal no-place of existence son.. Dimensionality is the representation of spatial space, and what part about that do you not comprehend  lol.. I can't imagine how you can not follow this very basic concept..

Negative existence = -1 dimensional, -1 enegy, -1 spatial space, non-material, nothing, non-existence, non-existent, and simply not possible to be a person, place, thing, object, or substance. :yay:

I would like to ask that since this is the "Happy Atheist" forum, that we refrain from condescending personal attacks. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have questions about this topic and haven't studied quantum physics. Jack's Disciple asked perfectly legit questions in a sincere form and deserves respectful answers. You have knowledge that you can impart, but which is difficult to grasp for many people, not just Jack.

Thank you in advance for helping stick to the spirit of the forum.
 

[Tom62]

I think that I'll give Stephen Hawkins a call to ask him what this thread is all about .

[pinkocommie]

I'm pretty sure I'm following along, but I feel like if I ask a question I'm going to be treated like an idiot.  :pop:

[Mike M.]

Okay, so what I got from that was since nothingness apparently can't exist, something, even if just in the form of energy, has always existed.  Now I'm not saying that that is wrong or right, I don't have anywhere near the credentials to do so.  But if it is right, how could we have reached today, since something had existed forever, which all goes back to the infinite amount of time before now?  Again, I'm not asking the question to try and prove you false, I'm simply wondering how it's possible.

[Davin]

Okay, so what I got from that was since nothingness apparently can't exist, something, even if just in the form of energy, has always existed.  Now I'm not saying that that is wrong or right, I don't have anywhere near the credentials to do so.  But if it is right, how could we have reached today, since something had existed forever, which all goes back to the infinite amount of time before now?  Again, I'm not asking the question to try and prove you false, I'm simply wondering how it's possible.

You're living right now, in part of that forever.

I've heard this example: "If I wait for an infinite amount of time before I make a sandwich, I'll never make that sandwich. Therefore an infinite amount of time could not have existed before now." The idea is that if time is infinite, then nothing would happen. The problem with this concept of infinity is that it doesn't align itself very well with reality because things aren't waiting for an infinite amount of time before they do something, they're just happening because of the laws of nature. A sun doesn't think to itself "hmm, I'll wait for an eternity before I explode." It just explodes based on the laws of nature.

[pinkocommie]

Wow, Davin, that completely makes sense!  Thank you for that explanation - I was trying to convey the same message but I kept getting lost in confusing metaphors and over complicated ideas.  

[Whitney]

Energy can not exist in the form of a negative existence..

From what you have written, it's not clear to me that "negative existence" is even a meaningful concept.  What does "-1-dimensional" actually mean?  Can you have "2-dimensional existence" or "3-dimensional existence"?  What exactly is the connection between existence and dimensionality that you are implicitly referring to?  Basically, I haven't a clue what it is you're talking about.   :crazy: This is apparently to complicated for you to grasp.

And a negative existence isn't a meaningful concept because it's not possible to exist :yay:

Thus it's impossible to be outside of space, time, or material physicality.. You can't exist in a place of non-existence to which is made of nothing. Nor can you exist outside of time and have any sort of functionality, process,  inertia, ability, or motion.. Thus, the notion of a GOD existing out side of space, time, and material physicality is entirely laughable.  Theists are basically stating their GOD doesn't exist while claiming it magically does.  

Please remember that HAF has civility guidelines that must be followed by all parties participating in debate.

[KDbeads]

So... since I understand this entirely... does that make me a super nerd?  

[deekayfry]

Maybe sports parlance might help.

In football, let's say you start at the 20 yard line.  If the running back runs forward 5 yards, it is +5 yards.  He ends up on the 25 yard line  Let's say he is tackled behind the 20 yard line at a loss of 10 yards, that will be -10 yards.  That is how negative numbers work.  You have a starting point where you can move forward or backwards.

Within our physical existence, ie. space, time, matter, physics, chemistry, and so on, the theoretical starting point is ZERO.  So there is no going backwards, no negative numbers.  In football, if it were allowed, the running back is starting at the goal post and can't ran backwards.  He has nowhere to go.

To complicate all of this   There is no such thing as ZERO energy -and further more negative energy.  In the universe we live in, there is no such thing as "nothing."  Thus a God which IS "something" could not logically create another "something" out of "nothing."  Non sequitur, right?  The logic does not follow.

[Mike M.]

So everything we see today has indeed existed forever then, in one form or another?  This I find to be an extremely interesting topic seeing as I plan to become an astrophysicist.  I would really love for anyone who has more knowledge of this subject to post what they know so my mind can have a feast  

[KDbeads]

So everything we see today has indeed existed forever then, in one form or another?  

We don't know for certain, hence the numerous theories on the origins of the universe, if in fact it 'originated'.     First law of thermodynamics: energy can't be created or destroyed.  So therefore it would appear it has been here forever in some form.

[deekayfry]

So everything we see today has indeed existed forever then, in one form or another?  This I find to be an extremely interesting topic seeing as I plan to become an astrophysicist.  I would really love for anyone who has more knowledge of this subject to post what they know so my mind can have a feast  

We don't know.  We don't know what comes before the "big bang."  Sure there are "string" theories, alternate universes, parallel universe, but is it really all that complicated?  Personally, I don't know, but I also don't think so.

What do you mean by forever?  The Universe supposedly has an age, around 13 billion years, but we don't know what happened before that.  It is a great question, we say there is a zero age, the universe started somewhere, but what was it before that?

We don't know.

I don't think we will ever find out either.

Some questions don't have answers and will never have answers.