Christianity

[i_am_i]

For one to go to hell, according to the Bible, is to not have a relationship with Jesus. It doesn't say that if you break the laws you automatically go to hell. Christianity is not a religion of law.

Well in that case I'm defnitely going to hell, where I'll suffer forever in burning fire, tortured beyond anything you can imagine, I'll cry out in agony from the pain and the anguish and the hopelessness of everlasting eternal damnation in the fires of hell, and all because I do not have a relationship with Jesus.

I'm assuming that you're perfectly okay with that.

[Whitney]

What are your thoughts about it?

Usually none these days...it's just not something that comes to mind often.

What is wrong with it?

A lot of things...what specifically depends on liberally you interpret the Bible.  I think Fundamentalist Christians do a good job at shining a spotlight on every Bible teaching that is wrong.

[JillSwift]

For one to go to hell, according to the Bible, is to not have a relationship with Jesus. It doesn't say that if you break the laws you automatically go to hell. Christianity is not a religion of law.

I also believe that conversion by intimidation is immoral too.

Hmm.

[Sophus]

For one to go to hell, according to the Bible, is to not have a relationship with Jesus. It doesn't say that if you break the laws you automatically go to hell. Christianity is not a religion of law.

I also believe that conversion by intimidation is immoral too.

Hmm.

:hail:  :hail:  :hail:  :hail:

[KDbeads]

Sorry if I wasn't clear,
I meant the Pentacostal branch.

I have the same feelings towards Christianity that I do toward all Abrahamic religions

In case you aren't aware, pentacostal IS an abrahamic religion.

Christianity is not a religion of law.

So what do you call the commandments, and all the other rules and regulations from Exodus 20 through 23, at least?  Not to mention Leviticus, Deuteronomy, so on and so forth.   There are so many laws in the bible on so many different things it's very hard to come to the conclusion that christianity is not a religion of laws

[Sophus]

Christianity is not a religion of law.

So what do you call the commandments, and all the other rules and regulations from Exodus 20 through 23, at least?  Not to mention Leviticus, Deuteronomy, so on and so forth.   There are so many laws in the bible on so many different things it's very hard to come to the conclusion that christianity is not a religion of laws

As an ex-Christian, I can predict what the answer will be: "Jesus washes away all sins so accepting Him is the only thing that matters."  But I would then ask, doesn't that make "accept in Jesus" a law?

Jesus also said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.”

[KDbeads]

As an ex-Christian, I can predict what the answer will be: "Jesus washes away all sins so accepting Him is the only thing that matters."  

Or, we don't follow the OT to the letter, it's more of a guideline/preamble to the NT.  Some view the OT as LAW only to be ignored when it doesn't suit the problem at hand.  Depending on the type of pentacostal we are talking about.

[Gawen]

Wow....I'm trying so hard to be nice....and brief...*chucklin*...maybe tonight after work...

[elliebean]

But wouldn't you like having an afterlife as opposed to nothingness?

Actually, no.

Nothingness isn't all that bad, in my (temporary absence of) experience. So far I haven't heard of an idea of an afterlife that anyone takes seriously and would be in any way preferable to just simply ceasing to exist. It's a matter of personal taste, I suppose. Something like an indefinate continuation of my natural life would be alright by me, if I could stay young and healthy (oops, too late), especially if it wasn't complicated with gods and all that other religious stuff, but I'm not into wishful thinking.

[Gawen]

Christianity makes no claim that human beings are worth nothing. In fact, it makes quite the opposite claim.

I am going to assume that you have not read the post Elliebean linked you too.

Matthew 8:21: Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead."
10:27: Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much.
10: After Jesus denounces divorce, his disciples say that if divorce isn't allowed, then "it is good not to marry." Jesus agrees by saying that it is better to make yourself a eunuch (cut off your testicles)  "for the kingdom of heaven's sake."
19:29: Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward.
7: 13-14: Jesus says that most people will go to hell.
Mark 7: 9-10: Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law.
7: 13-14: Jesus says that most people will go to hell.

Mark 10: 29-30: Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families.
Mark 13:17: In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women.
Mark 7:27: Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil.

Luke 12:46-47: God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes."

What does Paul say?
1 Timothy 5:9-15: You should help a widow only if she
1) is over 60 years old,
2) had only one husband,
3) has raised children,
4) has lodged strangers,
5) has "washed the saints feet,"
6) has relieved the afflicted, and
7) has "diligently followed very good work."
Otherwise, let them starve.

Hebrews 12: 6-8: God always hurts the ones he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, you are a bastard, not a son.

! Cor 3:14-16: All non-Christians are blind. They were blinded by God to prevent them from seeing the truth.

That's enough of that. I can only take so much of the bible at a time. At any rate, God, Jesus and Paul certainly do take a stance that people are worth nothing. Hebrews 12: 6-8 is a good testament to that.

Humans were made in the likeness of God, so doesn't that make them worth at least something?

Does my son mean he's worth more because he is a human like me? Are you saying that God is human? Or are you saying that if God made intelligent beings that DID NOT look like God that they would be worth less?

Not only that, but after God made Adam, he said ,"This is good." Therefore, we must be worth something.

Non sequitor.

Our achievements are also worth something because God did not tell the Christians to not do anything. He told them to get out and do stuff.

Read that post that you were linked to.

As for the doing, thinking, and behaving, Christianity sets some guidelines for how to behave, but it is no different than how we should behave. For example, I think I can safely say that we should not kill. Even without the Bible, we probably all know this. God's commandments are no different than our own consciences; it's just making our consciences concrete.

"Thou shalt not kill" has been in use way before they were listed in the Ten C's. However, "Thou shalt not boil a kid in his mother's milk" is quite possibly original...*laffin*
But...however...anyway...the 10 C's are only the first few of 618 commandments. Are you obeying the Law as your God commands you to do?

For one to go to hell, according to the Bible, is to not have a relationship with Jesus. It doesn't say that if you break the laws you automatically go to hell. Christianity is not a religion of law.

Me thinks thou needest to re read your bible.

[Davin]

But wouldn't you like having an afterlife as opposed to nothingness?

Actually, no.

Nothingness isn't all that bad, in my (temporary absence of) experience. So far I haven't heard of an idea of an afterlife that anyone takes seriously and would be in any way preferable to just simply ceasing to exist. It's a matter of personal taste, I suppose. Something like an indefinate continuation of my natural life would be alright by me, if I could stay young and healthy (oops, too late), especially if it wasn't complicated with gods and all that other religious stuff, but I'm not into wishful thinking.

I would prefer to live a bit longer, maybe a thousand years or so, but eternity sounds so awful to me. If I put it into some kind of context where I can understand immortality I have this example: A ten by ten room with light, one book and a bed for 80 years. I think this is a good comparison to eternity because even after 10 years in that room I would be bored out of my mind. The boredom of eternity would probably seem to just sneak up on me and then I would be wishing for non-existence, because, given eternity, everything gets done to death.

[Gawen]

Sorry if I wasn't clear,
I meant the Pentacostal branch.

This was already taken care of.

There is plenty of evidence, but as with every religion, and even atheism, all of them require a certain amount of faith. What unproven parts are you talking about? (just curious)

Atheism is not a religion. If it was, bald would be a hair colour.

Well, we're all selfish aren't we? But wouldn't you like having an afterlife as opposed to nothingness?

So many people are afraid to die. They hold on to that fraying rope of an afterlife that has never been evidenced. Tell me. You're so worked up on achieving this "afterlife"...where were you before you were born?

I also believe that conversion by intimidation is immoral too.

That is precisely what the Bible does.

As a Christian, I'm supposed to just present an argument and let people decide for themselves.

All Christian arguments fall flat simply because they cannot offer sufficient evidence. Just trot out this god of yours and let him speak to me.   He is after all omni-everything. I'm sure He could manage it.

Thanks for being so welcoming everyone.

You're welcome

[Gawen]

But you see, Davin, you'll be busy in Heaven...singing praises unto the Lord for ever and ever and ever and....

Oh...and the sad part of that is you'll know no one there! All will be made new.

[elliebean]

...80 years....

My memory isn't that long.  

Not that it's important at all, we might as well discuss which super-powers we'd rather have if we could pick one.

[Gawen]

...80 years....

My memory isn't that long.  

Not that it's important at all, we might as well discuss which super-powers we'd rather have if we could pick one.

I want the power to be able to make a rock so big I CAN lift...*chucklin*