Sex, moderation, and responsibility...what is appropriate?

[joeactor]

easytrak, it's ok sweetie.  Here, I'll open the door for you.  Now come on out - it's cramped in that small space...

There.  Isn't that better?

I can only hope that whoever you find to have sex with will help to free you from these artificial bonds - unless you're into bondage, of course.

[brainshmain]

donkeyhoty, spilling seed is not a sin, but rather how it is spilt that is the issue. thanks for elucidating

Leviticus 15:16-19 (King James Version)

 16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.

 17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.

 18 The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

 19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.

brainshmain, you think that i have some personal grievances with homosexuals. its not as though i haven't had homosexual desires from time to time. in fact i think perhaps all of us have the capacity to become homosexual. what i am against is any sexual activity which is not done sexually and/or is without love.

Why isn't homosexual sex without love?  I know plenty of loving gay couples in happy relatioships.  Why is their sex life 'not sexual' or 'without love'?  In fact, why are their sex lives any of YOUR concern?

[Whitney]

laetusatheos, wanting something for nothing is just plain selfishness. of course, i am also opposed to the puritanical idea that we should want nothing for something, i.e. that we shouldn't be pleasure-seekers at all, but rather work ourselves to death without any reward..

Well, with responsible sex both people get something (pleasure) for nothing (no unwanted side effects of sex)...how is mutual enjoyment selfish?  I'm no arguing for rape.

You also need to provide support for how wanting something for nothing is actually selfish if no one is harmed or overlooked in the process of achieving something for nothing.

donkeyhoty, spilling seed is not a sin, but rather how it is spilt that is the issue. thanks for elucidating

I could be wrong because it's been a while since I've read the verse in the bible about spilling seed and I don't feel like looking it up...but I don't rember it applying the rule to only certain contexts.

squid, i am interested to know why that is the case.

brainshmain, you think that i have some personal grievances with homosexuals. its not as though i haven't had homosexual desires from time to time. in fact i think perhaps all of us have the capacity to become homosexual. what i am against is any sexual activity which is not done sexually and/or is without love

I don't think you understand sexuality or love...you can be a homosexual and express both just a sensually as any straight couple.  

As for all people having some homosexual tendencies....I don't think that human sexuality is always a black or white issue and many people fall in the gray areas between straight or gay.  However, that doesn't mean that if you have tendencies you are gay.  Homosexuals are those who are only attracted to the same sex just as straights are only attracted to the opposite sex.  Maybe you are bi, which is okay.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter what you are for or against...another person's sexuality is none of your business to control or criticise unless you have reason for why what they are doing is harmful to others (ie pedofiles).  Homosexuals don't harm anyone by loving and touching each other through mutual attraction.

I don't even care that you strange views about what sex is and is not as long as you don't try to impose your lifestyle choice on others.

[easytrak]

It is no argument to say something is so because "the bible says so." spilling of seed in itself is a neutral act, regardless of what the bible says.

I never said homosexual sex was not without love. but nevertheless, it is not sexual. I don't pass negative judgement on the moral character of people simply because they are homosexual. Nevertheless, I stand by the principle that intercourse is about procreation and love as well as pleasure.

even if nobody is harmed in the process of getting something for nothing, it is still selfish. for instance, if i were to steal something from a person, but it is something they didn't want anyway, i am still a bad person and a thief.

[tacoma_kyle]

I'm curious, why do you care about what other people do? Its not effecting you is it? Hell gays can fuck all they want however they want big deal, its their lives let them live it.

But so are your main points:

You disagree with sex (in whatever form) without emotional attachment...right? Gay or straight.

You dont have anything against gays...right?

[Whitney]

even if nobody is harmed in the process of getting something for nothing, it is still selfish. for instance, if i were to steal something from a person, but it is something they didn't want anyway, i am still a bad person and a thief.

Having sex with a willing partner is hardly comparable to taking something without asking.  There are many organizations which provide food for those who cannot otherwise afford it...are individuals who accept food from those organizations selfish?  Not that I'm comparing sex to charity work, but I think it is an example of how getting something for nothing isn't necessarily selfish.  I actually think that in many cases having procreative sex is more selfish than utilizing protective measures....It is rather selfish to have a bunch of kids in a world that is quickly becoming overpopulated.

[SteveS]

Not that I'm comparing sex to charity work

This was a funny thought.  Imagine it, people could write off the going rate for prostitution from thier taxes as charitable donations.  Hahaha!

[easytrak]

i agree that some people have children for selfish reasons. yes, procreative sex can be selfish.

as for the food bank analogy, most people would be ashamed to take food from a food bank, because they want to be able to say they have done something to earn the food. that way they can say it is their food.

in the same way, most people are ashamed to go to a prostitute because a prostitute is not their partner.

[Whitney]

If you go to a food bank and receive food it is your food.  Someone may feel badly for having to go to a food bank because that person feels s/he should be able to provide for themselves on their own but are currently unable for some reason.  It has absolutely nothing to do with ownership of the food.

I find the analogy between food banks and prostitutes especially odd since no one own's their spouse and I'm pretty sure there are many people who go to prostututes without feeling ashamed.  Not all cultures view prositutuion as wrong, I believe it was the Japanese who did or still do encourage married men to see a gesha (sp).

Anyway, so we have established that sometimes procreative sex can be selfish....so should your argument now be that no one should have sex ever because no matter how they go about it selfish reasons will be attached to why they have sex?

[donkeyhoty]

Wasn't Mary Magdelene a whore?

Or, is that a myth... you know, like the resurrection?

[brainshmain]

Wasn't Mary Magdelene a whore?

Or, is that a myth... you know, like the resurrection?

Ahaha... nice.

And yeah, I've heard she was a prostitute too, but weren't like half the women back then mistresses anyway?

[donkeyhoty]

...half the women back then mistresses anyway

Giving my mistress money and gifts for sex does not make her a whore...  

It's the several hundred other guys that also give her money for sex that makes her a whore.

[easytrak]

there is nothing wrong with taking pleasure from sex as long as you do not try to avoid the responsibilities associated with sex. these include responsibilities towards the person you have sex with and any children which may be conceived as a result of the sex.

would you go to a prostitute without feeling shame? people feel shame when they masturbate. the reason i think is because it cheapens sex, a thing which is supposed to be about love and procreation as well as pleasure. it is profaning something sacred. pornography does the same thing.

[pjkeeley]

people feel shame when they masturbate.

Not me. In fact, I think it's self-empowering to know that we can get ourselves off any time we feel like it. Why should we be ashamed if there's nothing wrong with it? It's just a natural and healthy thing to do. I concede that, because it's such a private thing, talking about it can lead to embarrasment in polite conversation. But not shame. Nobody should ever be ashamed of pleasing themselves. That's just silly.

[joeactor]

there is nothing wrong with taking pleasure from sex as long as you do not try to avoid the responsibilities associated with sex. these include responsibilities towards the person you have sex with and any children which may be conceived as a result of the sex.
would you go to a prostitute without feeling shame? people feel shame when they masturbate. the reason i think is because it cheapens sex, a thing which is supposed to be about love and procreation as well as pleasure. it is profaning something sacred. pornography does the same thing.

Sorry, but no.

These are all cultural and learned behaviors.

Depending on the country and society, prostitution, masturbation, mistresses, etc may be the norm.

You seem to be mired in your own upbringing.  Open your mind a little and see that there are more perspectives than your own.

This type of puritan society has never existed in reality.  Just another way for one group of people to control the masses.

Free your mind, read a book.
(or at least watch Discovery or the History Channel from time to time),
JoeActor