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Adam and Eve were what?

Started by LoneMateria, February 12, 2010, 03:55:35 AM

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bfat

Quote from: "Recusant"First, hello and welcome, bfat.  I haven't been around here that much lately, so have not had the opportunity to say hello previously. ;)

Quote from: "bfat"...the variation in skin tone amongst humans has nothing to do with evolution, only slight genetic mutation (evolution would only occur if one mutation was more favorable, and resulted in the elimination of earlier varieties).

I may be misunderstanding you (and if so, please forgive my presumption), but I would say that evolution is undoubtedly the reason there is variation in skin tone.  There are well defined and understood advantages for both light and dark skin. Yes, "slight genetic mutation" is the mechanism for the variation that we see, but that's a mechanism which is part of the evolutionary process.  One of the main driving factors for light skin is the production of vitamin D.  For dark skin it's protection from ultraviolet radiation. Thus, in areas of the globe where there is a higher level of ultraviolet, dark skin has a survival advantage, and the people in those regions evolved darker skin tones. In regions of less radiation, lighter skin tones were an advantage, and people there evolved to have lighter skin.  If you care to explore this issue in a bit more depth, you can read this page from Dr. Dennis O'Neil's excellent website.  I've found his tutorials quite useful on a number of occasions, and he covers several topics, not just adaptation.

  Once again forgive me if I mis-read your post, but "...variation in skin tone amongst humans has nothing to do with evolution..." seems fairly unequivocal (and incorrect).


Thanks for your post, I guess I could have been a little more clear on what I meant.  I was referring to the main area of evolution with which creationists have a problem, which is speciation.  Since the genetic mutations resulting in different skin tones have not resulted in new species, just different colors of skin, this is just species variation, which I don't think most creationists have a problem with (right?).  While the amount of ultraviolet light in a given location may make it favorable for certain skin tones, this falls under natural selection (which is a component of evolution), but not actual species evolution.  The continuum of genetics related to skin tone over geographical regions is overlapping, so "races" are not actually distinct sets of genetic differences, but gradual and overlapping changes on an individual basis (my explanation isn't great--the second article explains this much better).  Technically all mutations that don't disappear within a few generations are genetic "evolutions" of a sort, but the Evolution (big "E") that I was referring to had more to do with speciation (large scale/macro evolution).  So as long as light and dark skinned people can still mate and produce viable offspring, it's just variation, not speciation.

I hope this makes sense.  I know the term "evolution" gets used in a lot of different contexts and with different meanings.  The simplest definition of the term is just "descent with modification," which is plainly obvious from even just one generation to the next.  But genetic variation hasn't really been contested, as far as I know, by creationists (unless you use the term micro-evolution, because it's that "e" word that's the problem).  Mostly when people talk about evolution, they mean speciation and large-scale evolution.  Gregor Mendel was doing his work at around the same time as Darwin, and I don't think people really flipped their lids over his theories.  I guess making wrinkly pea pods wasn't as rage-provoking as saying that humans "came from monkeys"  (Don't you shudder when you hear people say this?  For some reason saying men and monkeys had a common ancestor somehow means to them that we came from monkeys...  yet believing that all of mankind came from one single couple--can you imagine the amount of incest that had to happen for that to be true???--makes perfect sense.)

Anyway, I hope this is more clear.
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."  -Willy Wonka

karadan

Quote from: "G-Roll"
Quote from: "karadan"As the population grew, some people migrated to Africa where the good hunting was. The sun being so strong in Africa meant the people there started to evolve a natural protective pigment in their skin called melanin.......oh, wait...
is the oh wait because humans started in africa?

QuoteAnyone hear any answers to this or have some insight/theories on the subject?
a lot of people think the isrealites where black. i personally dont have an opinion.
but if we originated in africa, im going to make an ignorant uneducated guess that the first humans were black. although the world was a completely different place back then, so who knows. anything can happen.

No the 'oh wait' bit because they evolved.. :)
QuoteI find it mistifying that in this age of information, some people still deny the scientific history of our existence.

PeytonFarquhar

Quote from: "LoneMateria"I just heard a interesting question on reddit and I'd like to explore it (and pose it to my YEC friend if I can refine it a bit).  If Adam and Eve were white where did black and brown people come from?

According to the Creation Museum in Kentucky, mutations.

Quote from: "LoneMateria"Now i'm going to stop the first 10 comments and say I don't think Adam and Eve are real and thus these imaginary people could be white, black, brown, yellow, purple wtf ever.  Just substitute whatever 3 races you would like in any of the spots for the argument.

Now on reddit they mentioned the Curse of Ham and the decedents of Ham are now black.  That one claim is that their skin was turned black blah blah blah the decedents of Ham were the Canaanites who were all killed later in the bible.  


The Mormons say it's a curse from their god.  Same with the injuns.  They're red because they abandoned the Mormon god.

Squid

Quote from: "bfat"Gregor Mendel was doing his work at around the same time as Darwin, and I don't think people really flipped their lids over his theories.  I guess making wrinkly pea pods wasn't as rage-provoking as saying that humans "came from monkeys"

Sorry, not trying to derail or anything...just a drive by random info post from your friendly neighborhood Squid.

Mendel published his work in an obscure little journal and it wasn't until the early 20th century that his work was "rediscovered" and reached a wide audience.