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Non existence of Christian God

Started by Mike M., January 28, 2010, 06:45:00 AM

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Mike M.

I think this would be the right place to post this, although I could also see philosophy as an appropriate section for this.

Basically, I wrote this because I think that belief in god is silly.  I wrote it specifically for the Christian god because I was a Roman Catholic up until about three or four weeks ago, when I started questioning my faith, and it hit me, "Wow, religion has no reason why you should believe in it."

But before I cause to much emotional noise in Christians and you all decide to ignore this, I would like to post the things I like to think of as the simplest and most logical disproofs of god.

Do you believe in unicorns and faeries?
   -If no, could it be because no one has ever seen one, there is no evidence, or it is just absurd?  Than why believe in god,
    When Unicorns, faeries, and god, all have not ever been seen, there is no evidence for them, and they are all absurd?

Can god create a math problem that he can't solve?
   -If yes, then he is omnipotent, but not omniscient.  If no, then he can be omniscient, but not omnipotent.  The very
    "qualities" of god are self contradictory.

If god is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnibenevolent, why is there evil?
   
   -Free will cannot be the answer as humans don't have it.  If god is omniscient, he knows every single thing that will
    happen in our lives, period.  And, since he KNOWS that this is going to happen, we cannot deviate from what he KNOWS is
    going to happen, or else god would be proven WRONG, which is impossible since he is omniscient.
      
      Ex. You KNOW even before a car pulls up to an intersection that it will turn right -- there is no contestment,
          you KNOW beyond reason that this event will happen.  The car then HAS to turn right, because to turn
          left would prove you wrong, and since you KNOW that the car is going to turn right, you can't be wrong.

   -As free will is disproven from the perspective of an omniscient god, we might also hit on horrible things NOT affected
    by humankind.  Examples - earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes...If god has the power to stop this, knows how to stop it,
         and loves us beyond compare, than why does he allow these things to happen?

   -In brief summary from Epicurus
      -If god is willing to prevent evil but not able, then he is not omnipotent.
      -If god is able to prevent evil, but not willing, then his is not omnibenevolent.
      -If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, then whence cometh evil?
      -If god is neither willing nor able to prevent evil, then why call him god?

If god is all forgiving, then why does he seem to hold so many grudges in the old testament?  He destroys cities
for simply not believeing in him, and orders the Israelites to commit detestable and horrible acts of immorality.

   Deuteronomy 7:1-2   When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out
   before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
   
   20:10-17   When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their
   gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and
   they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword
   all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as
   plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not
   belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance,
   do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy themâ€"the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites,
   Hivites and Jebusitesâ€"as the Lord your God has commanded you.

It also says to kill people for many different reasons

   Leviticus 20:9      If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
   
   20:10   If a man commits adultery with another man’s wifeâ€"with the wife of his neighborâ€"both the adulterer and the
   adulteress must be put to death.

   20:13   If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put
   to death.

   Deuteronomy 22:20-1    If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be
   brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a
   disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

   Exodus 35:2   For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the
   LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Wow, it sounds like the Bible is a GREAT place to draw moral guidance from.


I know that is not much, and I know that there are many other arguments against the existence of god, but these are the ones
that really break the deal for me because of their simplicity and logic.



All in all, it seems perfectly logical to conclude that god doesn't exist, and that god is just an invention of man.

Thanks,
Mike M.

*EDIT*  Whoops, I almost forgot to include one!  In Hosea, Hosea is a prophet that marries a prostitute to symbolize god's relationship with the unfaithful
people of Israel.  He has three children, each of them named after a threat from god to the Israelites.  The third is named Lo-ammi, meaning "not my people".     Lo-ammi (1:8-9)
In this threat, god says that if Israel doesn't shape up soon, he's going to abandon them.  But wait, I learned that god will never ever never never never ever ever never ever abandon
us no matter what!  So what's with this threat?  :hmm:

AlP

Wow it seems like you've been thinking deeply about this. I admire your critical thinking. Your arguments seem reasonable to me. I've never been indoctrinated into Christianity though and so I'm going to defer to our members who have an understanding of it. Keep it up!
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

Mark L Holland

To Mike M

  A very good post well written and well thought out, I am a Theist and do believe in God or Gods but I reject the Jewish, Christian and Islamic Gods because of the teachings and doctrines of their followers.  Even if such Gods existed they would be unworthy of worship, praise or of being loved as the creator.  These Gods were simply created in the image of their followers and as such do not actually exist.

  In my mind God or Gods can only exist when God or Gods give evidence or proofs of their existence to individuals, and that when that evidence or proofs are given to an individual then the God or Gods only exist to that individual.  I do not believe in a Universal God with but one name, image or persona.
 :bananacolor:

Mike M.

Thanks for all of the positive comments guys.  In this semester's religion class we are concentrating on the New Testament, so I decided that I am going to have lots of fun using some of these arguments in class.  Heck, the first question we had to answer was, "What can human reason reveal to us about the existence of God?"  I laughed a bit to myself and wrote a two page response on why god doesn't exist.  :D

Thanks,
Mike M.

Nahuel

Very good post, I liked it. As you said, simple logics.

Just something that bugs me a bit:
thanthen.
 :D
No soy un hombre de plegarias, pero si estás en el cielo sálvame por favor Superman!

Mike M.

Haha yea, I wrote this late at night, so I was trying to remember which was which, and I must have switched them around  ;)

Nahuel

Haha, yeah. I'm not really in a position to play grammar police since mine sucks as well. But I thought I should let you see that since apparently you're planning on using it in a paper for school.
No soy un hombre de plegarias, pero si estás en el cielo sálvame por favor Superman!

Zyva

Quote from: "Mike M."Thanks for all of the positive comments guys.  In this semester's religion class we are concentrating on the New Testament, so I decided that I am going to have lots of fun using some of these arguments in class.  Heck, the first question we had to answer was, "What can human reason reveal to us about the existence of God?"  I laughed a bit to myself and wrote a two page response on why god doesn't exist.  :D

Thanks,
Mike M.

Hi Mike!!
Since your religion class is studying the New Testament you should check out some of Bart D. Erhman's books. "Misquoting Jesus" or "Jesus Interrupted" are excellent to start. Great books, easy to read, and they pretty much give you the low down on the NT. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Mike M.

Oh, thanks very much for that!  I'll definately have to check those out!  Let's see if I can't stump my religion teacher with something...  :evil:

And actually no, I haven't thought about using it in a paper yet, but that is a good idea.  If any big assignment comes up with anything remotely pertaining to this as the subject, I'll use it!

Thanks,
Mike M.