DNA/genetic code as evidence for Creation

[Adrian Simmons]

Although I don't think it's strong enough evidence, when people talk about dna and patterns and consistencies in the universe as proof that something out there created it all, I doesn't exactly sound like nonsense to me and I can see why people believe it. I guess it's a question of, is that enough to prove there's a god? Maybe there is a God and we just don't see it, maybe it's true and we are a little too left brained, or maybe it's all just how the universe works and that's that. But if there is a God and if all these patterns are his way of operating, then hats off to him. It's quite clever. Talking of left and right brains, is there a thread on this?

[elliebean]

I haven't seen a thread on that topic, why don't you start one?  :eek:

[karadan]

Well, that's helpful, thanks.

It is, actually.

First, RNA almost certainly (though there's no way to scientifically prove this, just infer it) came before DNA, so that's a flaw right there. Second, even RNA is composed of smaller building blocks, single nucleotides containing a ribose sugar. The claim that DNA is the building block of life is like saying furniture is the building block of an Ikea store.

Your friend is in a Creationism mindset from the onset, making any sort of logical discourse impossible without a mind-bending amount of mental gymnastics. Twisting current knowledge to prove previous theories is called Postdiction and we see it constantly. Tell your friend to audit an evolutionary biology course at the local university and read up on cognitive dissonance.

It's fruitless, but you can try to explain to him that the concept of higher powers, Gods, the supernatural, etc., are leftovers from times when people needed them to make sense of the natural world. We no longer need God to explain 99% of what goes on in nature. This is where, for him, cognitive dissonance comes in. This is not to say that we need God to explain that last 1%; we're just still wrapping our heads around it. (For example, what exactly happens when you pass the event horizon of a black hole?  

[curiosityandthecat]

What you talking about?? He is a nutter!  

[Achaios]

mm..what about RNA viruses? what about organisms (I think some tetrahymena do not utilise the exact same amino acids) where the genetic code does not apply per se?
So in his mind God might be similar to a polymerase utilising DNA for protein synthesis..

On a side note, I have another question which doesn't relate to this, but during my studies and my life in general I have never met a creationist in flesh.. It would be rather interesting to meet one and study their boiling point..

[Squid]

It would be rather interesting to meet one and study their boiling point..

They get mad pretty easily, in my experience at least - no matter how much evidence you cite or how meticulous you are with your arguments you will always end up  

[Tank]

Ask him why our DNA is scattered with the wreckage of virus DNA. I, virus: Why you're only half human

WHEN, in 2001, the human genome was sequenced for the first time, we were confronted by several surprises. One was the sheer lack of genes: where we had anticipated perhaps 100,000 there were actually as few as 20,000. A bigger surprise came from analysis of the genetic sequences, which revealed that these genes made up a mere 1.5 per cent of the genome. This is dwarfed by DNA deriving from viruses, which amounts to roughly 9 per cent.

On top of that, huge chunks of the genome are made up of mysterious virus-like entities called retrotransposons, pieces of selfish DNA that appear to serve no function other than to make copies of themselves. These account for no less than 34 per cent of our genome.

All in all, the virus-like components of the human genome amount to almost half of our DNA. This would once have been dismissed as mere ...

Also

Why is our gene to manufacture vitamin C switched off, leading to Scurvy?
Why does our DNA make a fish on route to making a human? Why does yeast have more DNA (is thus more genetically complex) than us?

[xSilverPhinx]

Ask your collegue to explain vestigial organs and junk DNA (why do marine mammals sometimes appear with legs or why do chickens sometimes appear with teeth?) with his 'DNA is god's building blocks' hypothesis. Why would animals carry and sometimes manifest genes that were active in a somewhat distant and physically different ancestor? Did god keep getting his creations wrong and was too lazy to perfect their genomes, ours included?

Ask him to also explain the genetic markers which help define ancestry through time. Why would they correlate with everything else in evolutionary theory supported by anatomy, homologous structures, biochemistry, behavioural psychology etc.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have a Creationist work colleague who asserts that the evidence evolutionists use to support evolution, equally supports Creation.

To be precise, when I quote homology and the relation of gene sequences throughout the taxonomy of organisms as evidence that evolution has occurred, his reponse is just that "DNA are the building blocks of life, they're what God used to create everything." His reasoning is that the overall gene pool is just like a big box of lego that God raked through to build things - no wonder we see similarity in the genetic makeup of organisms.

How do I respond to this? What's the real evidence that supports evolution as opposed to Creation?

I get what you're saying: god might build many differently shaped buildings, but he uses bricks in all of them.  And, to be honest, there's nothing that says, specifically, that he could NOT have done so.

But the parsimony suggests that theists wishing to show this have a longer row to hoe than do materialists.

Ask him why he considers god a more parsimonious explanation.

[JoElite]

[youtube:2vm4ho96]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c[/youtube:2vm4ho96]

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have a Creationist work colleague who asserts that the evidence evolutionists use to support evolution, equally supports Creation.

To be precise, when I quote homology and the relation of gene sequences throughout the taxonomy of organisms as evidence that evolution has occurred, his reponse is just that "DNA are the building blocks of life, they're what God used to create everything." His reasoning is that the overall gene pool is just like a big box of lego that God raked through to build things - no wonder we see similarity in the genetic makeup of organisms.

How do I respond to this? What's the real evidence that supports evolution as opposed to Creation?

With Occam's Razor.

As far as evidence for evolution, check out Talkorigins.  The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.  The evidence for Special Creation is noticeably absent.

You friend is correct that god could work this way.  He would still need to show that 1) god exists, and 2) that he actually did this.

[Asmodean]

(For example, what exactly happens when you pass the event horizon of a black hole?   )

Uh... Death?

Although I think upon the crossing itself, everything would feel rather normal

[Heretical Rants]

(For example, what exactly happens when you pass the event horizon of a black hole?   )

Uh... Death?

Although I think upon the crossing itself, everything would feel rather normal

Well, there's a point at which the gravity pulling on one side of your body is many times stronger than the gravity pulling on the other side... to the point that you get ripped apart.
I don't think that such an experience would feel normal at all.

[The Black Jester]

I don't think that such an experience would feel normal at all.

How do YOU know what is normal for Asmodean?  I mean, maybe he gets ripped in half all the time.

[Asmodean]

(For example, what exactly happens when you pass the event horizon of a black hole?   )

Uh... Death?

Although I think upon the crossing itself, everything would feel rather normal

Well, there's a point at which the gravity pulling on one side of your body is many times stronger than the gravity pulling on the other side... to the point that you get ripped apart.
I don't think that such an experience would feel normal at all.

You are also accelerating at an incredible speed even before the EH, so the passing itself MAY, in fact, be quite uneventful. However, by then you only have like nanoseconds to live...