Re: Some Thoughts on Fundamentalism

[Renegnicat]

I've always thought that someday a Utopia might be possible, that somehow we will manage to find our utopia, through science, religion, something that wouldn't turn out to be fake or violent. But  my utopia is a little different from the normal utopia, which is usually characterized as a place of no pain, of ultimate achievement, and of no more problems.

This is not a utopia in my view. I had thought for the longest time how strange it was that anyone would even want to live in a place like that. Yet, here they are, christian fundamentalists, islamic fundamentalists, and more recently, atheist fundamentalists, who seem to have it in their head that human-kind is some sort of perfectable thing, and from there, make a short leap into thinking how if we could just get rid of all the human impuraties...

Get rid of the other. Get rid of the religious, get rid of the jews, get rid of genetic defects, get rid of people who don't agree, blah-blah-blah. My utopia is a place where problems come hard and fast, and the leraning curve is always just right to make you sweat, in an ever increasing spiral of difficulty, word without end.

I've come to realize that this utopia is already here, in a harsher form than what might be expected. I think that religion doesn't poison everything after all. In fact, I've come to consider the catholic church one of the more healthier places to go to be free from fanaticism. I'm starting to think that loyalty to an ideal of rationalism and logic is more empty than I once thought it to be.

It is for that reason that I'm probably going to start going back to church again. I don't believe I can make myself believe in any sort of god, but to torture myself over that is to miss the point. I feel that the magic and talismans of christian ritual add a great color to life, to everything. But it's not about believing; it's about solving problems, and like it or not, you can do that just as well as a religious person than as an atheist.

One thing I do regret is the fact that a botched problem, in life, never offers the opportunity for you to fix it again. If you make a mistake, you have to live with it. That is why I am returning to religion, not because I've "found god" or "truly believe", but because I feel it would be a mistake not to do so. Problems, as in life, are ephemeral, and I think I find that to solve the problem of death would simply up a larger, greedier, more horrifying can of worms than anyone before could imagine.

I look forward to it with anticipation.  :typehappy:

[G-Roll]

This is not a utopia in my view. I had thought for the longest time how strange it was that anyone would even want to live in a place like that. Yet, here they are, christian fundamentalists, islamic fundamentalists, and more recently, atheist fundamentalists, who seem to have it in their head that human-kind is some sort of perfectable thing, and from there, make a short leap into thinking how if we could just get rid of all the human impuraties...

that is some heavy reasoning there. i agree that problems and challenges and how we face them do shape who we are and who we become. and what good is joy if youve never known pain? how enjoyable can happiness be if you have never known the bite of rejection, sadness, and all the other crappy things in life. this part of your post (if i got it right) i can understand.

I'm probably going to start going back to church again. I don't believe I can make myself believe in any sort of god, but to torture myself over that is to miss the point.

hehe i thought that torturing yourself over faith was the point of going to a catholic church.
but really where ever you go i hope you find whatever it is you are looking for. good luck in your lifes journey.

One thing I do regret is the fact that a botched problem, in life, never offers the opportunity for you to fix it again. If you make a mistake, you have to live with it.

the only thing that is a mistake is a bad experience that you didnt learn anything from. really there are no such things as mistakes... so long as you learn and grow on your failures. life is all about getting back up and trying again.

[AlP]

I've come to realize that this utopia is already here, in a harsher form than what might be expected. I think that religion doesn't poison everything after all. In fact, I've come to consider the catholic church one of the more healthier places to go to be free from fanaticism. I'm starting to think that loyalty to an ideal of rationalism and logic is more empty than I once thought it to be.

Is the Buddhism not working out? If Christianity is more appealing, I think you might enjoy a liberal religion more that Catholicism. There are some religions with atheist members, I think one was Unitarian Universalist. There's Humanism of course but they are admittedly all about logic and reason. I'll stick with my Camus =).

[Renegnicat]

Is the Buddhism not working out?

Actually, I'd say it's progressing rather rapidly, changing into forms unforseen by the buddha.

Perhaps I was not specific enough, but I certainly don't see the decision as "going back" to religion. I guess you could say I'm advancing into "post-theism", where religious doctrine/dogma and it's concerns, as well as freedom from religious doctrine/dogma become beside the point.

To be honest, it matters not what I believe, whether that's in God, Allah, or Buddha; What is important is to Reflect, Understand, Apreciate, and Consider. But these things can be done inside our outside any religious or non-religious belief, and the fact that one person believes differently from another loses any sense of importance, not only in the sense that secularism is fine, but that religion is fine too.

In other words, religion doesn't need to dissapear to usher in a new world of peace and prosperity. Not only that, but just as in there is no final utopia, the dissappearance of religion would only leave space open for more problems to fill the gap. That's not bad, of course, but the point is that you can be a theist or you can be an anti-theist, and you will still have the same capacity for good and evil that you, and everyone else, has always had.

Sooo... Does god exist? The only answer I can give to that is that the question is "mu!".

[AlP]

Yeah it's not being religious that's the problem in my mind. It's the absolute system. There plenty of secular ideas that fit the bill when taken to extremes: rationalism, positivism, laissez faire capitalism, communism...