Android: Would you mind being one?

[Ultima22689]

YES! How could anyone not be tempted by this? The very idea that this is possible in OUR lifetime is mind bending and tickles me crazy. I wonder why is being biological so amazing? I don't get it. Aside from the fact of being alive since that technology is very infantile right now when it finally does get here, if you're an atheist, aside from wanting to have offspring why would you want to remain biological?

Because it's natural and pure. This is disgusting and I hope any facility doing this research burns down. We already have a population problem as it is without increasing a life-span to the point of nigh infinite. If I met any android people I'd attack their artificial parts out for the greater good. Non-human freaks.

What if they decide you're obsolete and try to conquer you? No one person should be too powerful like that.

I disagree, i'll be making the change along with plenty of other people. I don't have any desire to go out conquering people and what do you mean by natural and pure? When it comes down to it your still just molecules, you will just be arranged far more efficiently. While overpopulation is a problem I'm sure a population of people walking around thousands of times more efficient than a basic person will easily  be able to solve the over population problem which is about supply, not space. Nanotechnology will solve that issue on it's own.


You can go around ripping people's organs out if you want, well you can try, said android will be superhuman by today's idea of a human and will probably break you to pieces, if somehow you manage to become some sort of demented android hunter i'm sure you will just end up in jail. Discrimination is discrimination?

[Big Mac]

YES! How could anyone not be tempted by this? The very idea that this is possible in OUR lifetime is mind bending and tickles me crazy. I wonder why is being biological so amazing? I don't get it. Aside from the fact of being alive since that technology is very infantile right now when it finally does get here, if you're an atheist, aside from wanting to have offspring why would you want to remain biological?

Because it's natural and pure. This is disgusting and I hope any facility doing this research burns down. We already have a population problem as it is without increasing a life-span to the point of nigh infinite. If I met any android people I'd attack their artificial parts out for the greater good. Non-human freaks.

What if they decide you're obsolete and try to conquer you? No one person should be too powerful like that.

I disagree, i'll be making the change along with plenty of other people. I don't have any desire to go out conquering people and what do you mean by natural and pure? When it comes down to it your still just molecules, you will just be arranged far more efficiently. While overpopulation is a problem I'm sure a population of people walking around thousands of times more efficient than a basic person will easily  be able to solve the over population problem which is about supply, not space. Nanotechnology will solve that issue on it's own.


You can go around ripping people's organs out if you want, well you can try, said android will be superhuman by today's idea of a human and will probably break you to pieces, if somehow you manage to become some sort of demented android hunter i'm sure you will just end up in jail. Discrimination is discrimination?

Sarah Conner is a hero to our cause...she's so damn sexy when she was disassembling the M4 in T2.....I put that scene in slow mo when I watch it.

[Ultima22689]

Sarah Conner doesn't kill androids, she kills robots.

[Loffler]

how exactly would you transfer from an organic brain to an artificial brain? How do I know that process wouldn't kill me and simply create an exactly artificial copy brain with all my memories and personality? I could die and not even my friends and loved ones would be able to tell the difference.

[Will]

how exactly would you transfer from an organic brain to an artificial brain? How do I know that process wouldn't kill me and simply create an exactly artificial copy brain with all my memories and personality?

Here's a real noodle cooker: is there a difference? Let's say it's a perfect copy in every way, all the memories, all the emotions, all the feelings, opinions, biases, loves and hates, is that not you?

BTW, I'd be willing to make a few copies of myself. I've always wanted to be in a barbershop quartette of Wills.

[Loffler]

how exactly would you transfer from an organic brain to an artificial brain? How do I know that process wouldn't kill me and simply create an exactly artificial copy brain with all my memories and personality?

Here's a real noodle cooker: is there a difference? Let's say it's a perfect copy in every way, all the memories, all the emotions, all the feelings, opinions, biases, loves and hates, is that not you?

BTW, I'd be willing to make a few copies of myself. I've always wanted to be in a barbershop quartette of Wills.

Ok well let's take that to the next level: the doctors performing the "upload process" of moving you into your new synthetic brain make a mistake. You wake up, and your synthetic copy wakes up! The doctors say "Woops. Our mistake. Just kill yourself, you don't need this old version anymore." Do you do it?

[AlP]

Ok well let's take that to the next level: the doctors performing the "upload process" of moving you into your new synthetic brain make a mistake. You wake up, and your synthetic copy wakes up! The doctors say "Woops. Our mistake. Just kill yourself, you don't need this old version anymore." Do you do it?

I'm not sure what the motivation for killing would be here. Why would you kill the other person that you were copied from? In my opinion self is an illusion of consciousness. If the upload process worked, I think there would be two people with their own personal illusions of self.

[Loffler]

Ok well let's take that to the next level: the doctors performing the "upload process" of moving you into your new synthetic brain make a mistake. You wake up, and your synthetic copy wakes up! The doctors say "Woops. Our mistake. Just kill yourself, you don't need this old version anymore." Do you do it?

I'm not sure what the motivation for killing would be here. Why would you kill the other person that you were copied from?

I didn't say kill the "other person" I said "kill yourself." You wake up and you're the old fleshy version. And you see to your right a robot that acts exactly like you.

Singularians talk about "uploading" to a cybernetic brain so casually, when in fact what that would involve is exactly what I describe above: you're not uploaded, a copy of you is made and the original destroyed.

[AlP]

Well I have to look up "singularian". Do you have a link? But I still don't understand what would motivate killing either the original or the copy in the case of two copies?

[Loffler]

Well I have to look up "singularian". Do you have a link? But I still don't understand what would motivate killing either the original or the copy in the case of two copies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

People talk about cybernetic brain uploading as a means of living forever. They want to transfer their consciousness to an artificial superbrain -- to move it out of their current body and into a synthetic, potentially immortal body. Once you've been transmitted out of the old brain, what's the point in keeping the old brain?

And my response to that reasoning is: because it is impossible to tell if the transfer was successful.

I have the same problem with teleportation. As far as I'm concerned, Captain Kirk died on the pilot episode, replaced with copy after copy.

[AlP]

Okay I think I understand. My view is that in every moment we are "Star Trek" teleported through time. I think that what is left is what remains. I think self might be an idea left over from dualism.

[Ultima22689]

Well I have to look up "singularian". Do you have a link? But I still don't understand what would motivate killing either the original or the copy in the case of two copies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

People talk about cybernetic brain uploading as a means of living forever. They want to transfer their consciousness to an artificial superbrain -- to move it out of their current body and into a synthetic, potentially immortal body. Once you've been transmitted out of the old brain, what's the point in keeping the old brain?

And my response to that reasoning is: because it is impossible to tell if the transfer was successful.

I have the same problem with teleportation. As far as I'm concerned, Captain Kirk died on the pilot episode, replaced with copy after copy.

Well think about it like this. If the transfer was successful, why would the organic body wake up consciously then?  If that's the case then it would be clear the process didn't work and it is indeed just a copy.  Also, what makes you so sure that will even be an issue? When we cut and past a file it's clear it's being moved, when we drag a file to another folder it's clear it's being moved, There is a stark difference and if this does become an issue there is no reason we won't be able to solve it, I got a better idea, just to make sure, what if someone was first to log into the internet, then they were to converse, make it clear they are uploaded and download into the body? If the human body doesn't wake up and begin acting like normal it should indicate you're no longer there. People will indeed be interfacing into the internet like it's a second universe or something, no reason they can't upload themselves to it.

[Loffler]

Okay I think I understand. My view is that in every moment we are "Star Trek" teleported through time. I think that what is left is what remains. I think self might be an idea left over from dualism.

I can sympathize with this view. When this issue bothers me I try to think, on the other hand, we have an entirely new body ever 6-7 years. There's not an atom in my body that was in my body 7 years ago. So is that old self gone, replaced piecemeal by someone who inherited the memories and personality of the old self? This is sometimes called the Washington's Ax problem (after the old joke about the museum that had washington's ax on display, except that due to its age they had to replace the handle and the bit).

But that still doesn't make me comfortable with being teleported or uploaded. I only have one consciousness at any given moment, even though we don't understand why or how. I don't have any way of knowing if it will be the last thing I ever see -- and that no one will know I died because a new me replaces the dead me. Even if it killed me, the teleportation would look successful.

[Loffler]

Well I have to look up "singularian". Do you have a link? But I still don't understand what would motivate killing either the original or the copy in the case of two copies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

People talk about cybernetic brain uploading as a means of living forever. They want to transfer their consciousness to an artificial superbrain -- to move it out of their current body and into a synthetic, potentially immortal body. Once you've been transmitted out of the old brain, what's the point in keeping the old brain?

And my response to that reasoning is: because it is impossible to tell if the transfer was successful.

I have the same problem with teleportation. As far as I'm concerned, Captain Kirk died on the pilot episode, replaced with copy after copy.

Well think about it like this. If the transfer was successful, why would the organic body wake up consciously then?  If that's the case then it would be clear the process didn't work and it is indeed just a copy.  Also, what makes you so sure that will even be an issue? When we cut and past a file it's clear it's being moved, when we drag a file to another folder it's clear it's being moved, There is a stark difference and if this does become an issue there is no reason we won't be able to solve it, I got a better idea, just to make sure, what if someone was first to log into the internet, then they were to converse, make it clear they are uploaded and download into the body? If the human body doesn't wake up and begin acting like normal it should indicate you're no longer there. People will indeed be interfacing into the internet like it's a second universe or something, no reason they can't upload themselves to it.

I don't think you're understanding. The copy/transfer of me would pass ANY test you give it, because it has all my memories, personality, everything. But there is no difference in a transfer and a copy from the receiving end. If you leave the original alive, it's a copy. If you destroy the original, it's a transfer.

Let's combine analogies. Someone invents a teleporter. You want to try it out. So you step into the teleporter in New York to be teleported to Munich. But there's a power surge in the middle of the procedure, and you're still in New York. Then the office gets a phonecall from Munich that says "Sir, the target has arrived in Munich." You have arrived in Munich, but you're also still in New York. There are two of you now! "No biggie," says the teleportation operator. "We're back online. Just step back into the pod so it can disintegrate you. That should complete the procedure."

Would you do it?

[Ultima22689]

{QUOTE]
Well think about it like this. If the transfer was successful, why would the organic body wake up consciously then?  If that's the case then it would be clear the process didn't work and it is indeed just a copy.  Also, what makes you so sure that will even be an issue? When we cut and past a file it's clear it's being moved, when we drag a file to another folder it's clear it's being moved, There is a stark difference and if this does become an issue there is no reason we won't be able to solve it, I got a better idea, just to make sure, what if someone was first to log into the internet, then they were to converse, make it clear they are uploaded and download into the body? If the human body doesn't wake up and begin acting like normal it should indicate you're no longer there. People will indeed be interfacing into the internet like it's a second universe or something, no reason they can't upload themselves to it.[/quote]
I don't think you're understanding. The copy/transfer of me would pass ANY test you give it, because it has all my memories, personality, everything. But there is no difference in a transfer and a copy from the receiving end. If you leave the original alive, it's a copy. If you destroy the original, it's a transfer.

Let's combine analogies. Someone invents a teleporter. You want to try it out. So you step into the teleporter in New York to be teleported to Munich. But there's a power surge in the middle of the procedure, and you're still in New York. Then the office gets a phonecall from Munich that says "Sir, the target has arrived in Munich." You have arrived in Munich, but you're also still in New York. There are two of you now! "No biggie," says the teleportation operator. "We're back online. Just step back into the pod so it can disintegrate you. That should complete the procedure."

Would you do it?[/quote]

Of course not but do you think they would so causally do that simply because one is a copy? If this happens we will have to cross that bridge when we get there but what is this theory of yours based on?