If God DOES exist, would good atheists be allowed in heaven?

[Scrybe]

Also, to claim that as individuals we are always deontological or always consequential is probably not very true.  I suspect that in truth we are all some sort of blend of these two ideas.

This is surely more true than any of us deontologists would like to admit!  

I hope I've cleared up my view.

Yes, you did very well.  This has been a very good and infomative thread for me.  Thank you.

[Scrybe]

[Derail]

Sorry to derail a bit, Scrybe, from your posting I understand that you are some sort of Christian. One of your beliefs (I think) was that there is no hell and that they mistranslated it.

It was sort of like what I would call (as a Catholic) "Purgatory" where you are purified by fire and everyone goes to Heaven in the end.

But, what about the Unforgivable Sin of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? [/Derail]

Well, it's really not much of a derailing considering the topic of the thread.  Yes, I am some kind of Christian.  Universalist would be the closest box if you wanted to put me in one.  (Not to be confused with the Unitarians!)  

I did not say there is NO Hell®, I said our definition of it has been corrupted by several factors including a mistranslated word, other religions, and some very creative writing on the part of Dante and Milton.  

As to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I won't get into that on this forum, since this is not an appropriate place for interdenominational exegesis comparisons.  But here is a link with a short article about the subject if you are really interested.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew1/D1-Bi ... nings.html

And here is a longer one:

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... le-sin.htm

[brainshmain]

The question of 'would god let good non-christians into heaven' was a bit of what helped me decide to commit to calling myself atheist.  I realized that a lot of Christians say that a pedophile or murderer, if they accept christ, can get into heaven, while a non-christians who lead ethical and compassionate lives won't.  I decided that if that really is true, I really don't want to worship a God who is full of such hatred and cruelty.  If that is what god is really like, I'd rather not spend eternity with him.

[lafilip]

The question of 'would god let good non-christians into heaven' was a bit of what helped me decide to commit to calling myself atheist.  I realized that a lot of Christians say that a pedophile or murderer, if they accept christ, can get into heaven, while a non-christians who lead ethical and compassionate lives won't.  I decided that if that really is true, I really don't want to worship a God who is full of such hatred and cruelty.  If that is what god is really like, I'd rather not spend eternity with him.

I couldn't agree with you more here.  You see this a lot in the prison system in America.  Inmates who have committed the most unspeakable crimes go into prison and then claim themselves to be "reformed' as a direct result of "finding" Jesus.  So to add to your quote from above, "If that is what god is really like, I'd rather not spend eternity with him ---- or some of the people he deems acceptable to enter."

[Naked4Jesus]

Ok, obviously this is a complete hypothetical so I ask that you simply play along.

Let's pretend for just a moment that God exists and there is, indeed, a heaven and a hell (or something of that sort).  If an atheist lives his whole life by a relatively strict moral code, generally treating others as he would wish to be treated, would God care if that person believed in him or not?  

As a fairly new atheist, this is something I've contemplated while going through the "what if I'm wrong" phase.  I find it to be somewhat unreasonable that God would punish people for doubting his existence based on the (lack of) evidence HE gave us using the critical, inquisitive minds HE gave us.  Why would God punish people for using the same logical thinking processes which have enabled the human race to survive.   In fact, I think God would prefer to have people who used their minds in a rational manner during their time on earth in his presence rather than people who simply followed the flock and never bothered to challenge themselves and the belief system they happen to have been born into.

I suppose it doesn't matter since I have absolutely no earthly reason to believe any such place exists...but it's something I would imagine most of us have at least considered.  Thoughts?

Nah, we're all gonna burn.  I don't know of any religions that advocate salvation through nonbelief even if you've been a god damn saint which I personally am not.    God bless all of you though, no.... really.

[cheddamash]

The question of 'would god let good non-christians into heaven' was a bit of what helped me decide to commit to calling myself atheist.  I realized that a lot of Christians say that a pedophile or murderer, if they accept christ, can get into heaven, while a non-christians who lead ethical and compassionate lives won't.  I decided that if that really is true, I really don't want to worship a God who is full of such hatred and cruelty.  If that is what god is really like, I'd rather not spend eternity with him.

Ditto. Very well said. According to Christianity you can essentially commit any crime you want... be an absolute douche bag of a person all your life. As long as you accept Jesus as your own personal savior... Heaven.  Or you could lead a very moral life... do good deeds everyday of your life, but happen to be an atheist... Hell.  Why anyone would want to be appart of a religion with this kind of logic is beyond me.

My in-laws use this against me as some sort of threat. It's hard for them to grasp that I don't find Hell threatening when I don't believe it exists. If anyone tries to use this against you, just ask them if they're scared of the Boogie Man.

[joeactor]

Mmmm-mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm... Toasty!

I've got handbaskets for everyone!

Threat Based Compliance - gotta love it,
JoeActor

[ingodwetrust2]

yes they would, anyone who is a good person is allowed in to heaven bad atheists who slander god would not be admitted though according to the bible.

[tigerlily46514]

Well, i am a lifelong atheist but new to this website, and don't know how to put a quote in the square, but RE: would god let atheist into heaven if there was a god.  Personally, i agree with someone above who stated they would not enjoy being surrounded with theists!  Me either!  They'd have to have a special wing for all of us!  ha ha!
I used to wonder this myself when i was younger, but i felt very comfortable with assessing my own behavior as kind and moral.  
If there is a god, and if she doesn't base our worthiness for 'reward' on our behavior--i don't want anything to do with her, Send me on to 'hell'......

As a nurse who has watched many deaths, cared for many who have suffered brain damage, i have a whole other thread i could start on even trying to separate the mind and the body for any type of afterlife....  can't be done.  You can't even have a thought with an oxygen deprived brain, let alone be who you once were....but that is another thread...and we are all sort of playing along with a hypothetical question...

I told my religious relative that she could comfort herself about worrying if I would get my atheist ass into heaven with that bible passage something about "When i was hungry, you gave me food, etc" so the guy in the story who never went to church got to go into heaven based on HIS BEHAVIOR.  I actually loathe  and laff at anything from the bible--it means nothing to me, and almost everything in it is horrible, and easily contradicts its own self, but that worked for my relgious relative's fears.  
But maybe i will start a thread somewhere on spearating the body and mind...cuz i have some passionate thoughts on that.
~jean

[MoralCompass]

Its funny how Atheists, who claim to have no beliefs in God or an afterlife, can even have opinions, a synonym for belief, on it.  You should all take a vow of silence on this if you are concerned with being true Atheists.  You can only have beliefs about this stuff.  You can’t have knowledge about it, because it isn’t possible in this life.

"I live my life in total morality, but don’t believe in an afterlife."

That statement itself is contradictory, because you are content with never seeing your loved ones again, and you DON’T KNOW for sure if you will or not…but you choose the option anyway.   If you are not content with never seeing them again, then I feel sorry for you, because you have chosen to feel horrible because of your BELIEFS.

So, I guess, if I were God, I’d postpone your entrance into heaven until you know the importance of feeling horrible about all those people going away, and then choosing to not feel horrible by believing they don't go away.

[Will]

Its funny how Atheists, who claim to have no beliefs in God or an afterlife, can even have opinions, a synonym for belief, on it.  You should all take a vow of silence on this if you are concerned with being true Atheists.  You can only have beliefs about this stuff.  You can't have knowledge about it, because it isn't possible in this life.

Do Christians read fiction other than the Bible? Of course so. That doesn't mean they believe in it. I don't think Moby Dick exists, but I can speak of the white whale in the hypothetical all I want.

"I live my life in total morality, but don't believe in an afterlife."

That statement itself is contradictory, because you are content with never seeing your loved ones again, and you DON'T KNOW for sure if you will or not...but you choose the option anyway.   If you are not content with never seeing them again, then I feel sorry for you, because you have chosen to feel horrible because of your BELIEFS.

It's not immoral to err on the side of reason. It's reasonable. It has nothing to do with morality. Since I won't be seeing my grandfather again, I've made peace with his passing into death and I've moved on. He wouldn't want me pining away thinking about him and allowing delusion to hurt my perception of the world on his behalf. The moral thing, then, is to be true to myself and go on living life with my eyes as open as I can get them.

Death is a perfectly natural process that all life seems to go through, so instead of inventing an elaborate fantasy to avoid it, I honor the dead by recognizing them as they really are. They will decompose and their remains will reenter the life cycle as they grow into a tree or what have you.

So, I guess, if I were God, I'd postpone your entrance into heaven until you know the importance of feeling horrible about all those people going away, and then choosing to not feel horrible by believing they don't go away.

I'm glad you're not god because you wouldn't exist.

I don't feel horrible about anything. I miss those who have passed into death, but the mourning period is something to come out on the other side of as a part of a healthy process.

[donkeyhoty]

MoralCompass, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[shoruke]

I didn't read any of the replies, just the original message...

God, according to general consensus, is the ultimate morality (if he exists). He also knows everything, including your thoughts. So if you die and have to explain your life to Moses (I think? whoever judges you at the Gates of Heaven), he will be able to say "well I guess, knowing you personally, that I didn't leave enough evidence in your life to show that I exist. You had no way of deducing that there is a heaven. So it would be really unfair to send you to hell for eternity just for that, so now I guess I'll just have to judge your moral actions, not your religious ones."

basically, it would be unfair for god to not prove he exists and send us to hell for it.

[MoralCompass]

Do Christians read fiction other than the Bible? Of course so. That doesn't mean they believe in it. I don't think Moby Dick exists, but I can speak of the white whale in the hypothetical all I want.

Yeah, of course you can speak hypothetically about Moby Dick, because atheism doesn't restrict that.  The focus of atheism is God.  You are a strong atheist being that you have claimed God does not exist, but if you want to be true to yourself, know that you can't KNOW this.  The only alternative is to believe - make a reasonable guess at it, and form a hypothesis.   Speaking hypothetically about something entails opinions in the argument about it.  If you were a weak atheist, sure, speaking hypothetically about God, but it would be going against the definition of a weak atheist, being that you are forming a belief about god.  

Strong atheists claim they know something that cannot be known, which is just absurd.

I don't feel horrible about anything. I miss those who have passed into death

"I miss" is a negative feeling.  So you do feel bad about something.  Yeah, you went through the greiving process, so you don't feel HORRIBLE about it.  But, you did initially, and you will feel that pain again, thinking their being has ceased to exist, and you will also.  It's just lessened, believing you will be with them again.

[MoralCompass]

Correction:

If you were a weak atheist, speaking hypothetically about God, it would be going against the definition of a weak atheist, being that you are forming a belief about god.