Live and let live

[i_am_i]

Hehe, well in summary (although there is a lot more to it,) it's this: How is it possible that the most influencial human ever to live never actualy existed?

If he did exist, then we have the classical problem: Jesus was either a lunitic, a worker for the devil, or the son of God (what he said he was). The first two seem increadibly unlikely, so we have to go with the last.

How do you know that Jesus actually existed and, even if he did, what makes him the most influencial human ever to live? That's two questions, by the way. Take them in whatever order you choose!
Actually, make that three questions. What is it so incredibly unlikely about Jesus being a worker for the devil?
Now we know that reindeer exist. And we're told that Santa Clause depends on reindeer to move about. So what's the difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause?
FOUR questions, sorry.

[HandsandDreams]

To bring this back to the OP:

I have a great deal of sentiment for your position.  This is actually a topic I have been mulling around in my head for a long time, and one that I myself was going to post about eventually.  Right now I'm too busy to go in depth; I just wanted to say that I agree there is NO POINT to people on EITHER side of ANY debate being antagonistic toward each other.

More to come soon.  For now, I'll leave you with the recommendation of reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.  Don't let the title fool you: it was written in the 20's and is probably the best work ever on how to properly debate.

[i_am_i]

I just wanted to say that I agree there is NO POINT to people on EITHER side of ANY debate being antagonistic toward each other.

Well, there's no point in anyone being antogonistic to anyone whatsoever, no matter what debate they're engaged in, agreed. But surely that doesn't mean that Christians are to be given a free pass when they make any outrageous claim, does it? This let's be nicey nice to each other is great, but it has its time and place, no?

[Karras]

If he did exist, then we have the classical problem: Jesus was either a lunitic, a worker for the devil, or the son of God (what he said he was).

A few more options would include a charismatic Jewish preacher (of which I expect there was more than a few at the time), a compulsive liar, an ordinary guy who had all manner of fantastical things attributed to him, a space pixie, a servant of the FSM, a wisp in human form, etc.

I consider these last three to be at least as likely as him being either the son of God or a servant of the Devil.

That he might have existed (which is not certain) says sweet f a about the truth of any claims of his divinity. Plenty of others thoughout history have also claimed to be gods or children thereof. I am pretty sure none of them have been falsified either.

The first two seem increadibly unlikely, so we go with the last.

Erm, no. You might but then you are a little biased, if you are a Christian. As for myself, I recognise this for the false trichotomy it is and that you have provided no evidence for your choice, only your personal incredulity at the other two. I choose the far more likely answer that he was a mortal man who possibly made claims of the supernatural and/or was misrepresented by later biographers.

[Heretical Rants]

Are there any contemporary documents that portray Jesus as the Son of God?

[i_am_i]

Are there any contemporary documents that portray Jesus as the Son of God?

Not sure what you mean. Any Christian newsletter will do that. A Ku Klux Klan flyer will do that. What sort of contemporary documents, and how contemporary?

[Karras]

Are there any contemporary documents that portray Jesus as the Son of God?

Not sure what you mean. Any Christian newsletter will do that. A Ku Klux Klan flyer will do that. What sort of contemporary documents, and how contemporary?

Presumably contemporaneous to Jesus himself.

Considering there are probably no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus' life at all, it is unlikely there are any declaring him to be the son of God.

[i_am_i]

Are there any contemporary documents that portray Jesus as the Son of God?

Not sure what you mean. Any Christian newsletter will do that. A Ku Klux Klan flyer will do that. What sort of contemporary documents, and how contemporary?

Presumably contemporaneous to Jesus himself.

Considering there are probably no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus' life at all, it is unlikely there are any declaring him to be the son of God.

Ah, I see. No, there are none, none at all. That little detail somehow escaped anyone who was documenting current events back then.

[Heretical Rants]

Right.  It makes you wonder if there really was a guy running around with a huge group of followers and performing amazing miracles, or if someone just made that up.

[iNow]

Right.  It makes you wonder if there really was a guy running around with a huge group of followers and performing amazing miracles, or if someone just made that up.

Your comment reminded me of this.  

[youtube:1o86mcu7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc[/youtube:1o86mcu7]

[Reginus]

Before I dive into the details, I want to point out that it is almost universaly accepted in scholarly circles that Jesus really did exist. Historicity of Jesus. So for those who claim that there was no such person, I think the burden of proof is on you.

With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), scholars in the fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.

[i_am_i]

Before I dive into the details, I want to point out that it is almost universaly accepted in scholarly circles that Jesus really did exist. Historicity of Jesus. So for those who claim that there was no such person, I think the burden of proof is on you.

With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), scholars in the fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.

No, the burden of proof remains on you. All of this is nothing more then conjecture put forth by people who want it to be so. Evidence would be great. How about that? I mean, something this important has to have left some historical evidence laying around, no?
But this is getting boring. Now could we go back to my original question, please? What's the difference between believing in God and believing in Santa Clause? Seriously, what's the difference?

[curiosityandthecat]

Ruh roh. Wikipedia. Breaking out the big guns.  

[Heretical Rants]

Ruh roh. Wikipedia. Breaking out the big guns.  

I clicked on the link, and it went right to the part entitled "Jesus as a Myth."

Hmm.

[Karras]

Before I dive into the details, I want to point out that it is almost universaly accepted in scholarly circles that Jesus really did exist. Historicity of Jesus. So for those who claim that there was no such person, I think the burden of proof is on you.

With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), scholars in the fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.

Erm, yeah, there clearly is a consensus on the historicity of Jesus.    

To be honest though, I would not care if you could present his birth certificate. I responded to your post on the basis that he may very well have existed, even if I am not entirely convinced of this personally.

That being the case, demonstrating that there was a man named Jesus, maybe even one who was a preacher in 1st century Palestine, would not even begin to demonstrate his divinity.

Accounts and claims of divinity by mortal men are ten a penny throughout history. Many of them we have much more compelling evidence for their existence. Yours just ain't special, it's merely popular.