Stupid Atheist

[Torlin]

Before i start i would like to say that i am an atheist, though i am a budhist (wearing a gold budha necklace right now) in a philisophical sense, as in i follow much (though not all) of the budhist guide to a better living. And in case you didn't know, you can be Budhist and not believe in one great being or (i don't think) you even have to believe in karma or somesuch, though you can be a religious budhist. (if i'm wrong about this i will seem like such an @ss).

Anyway, I'm not saying (though i made it look that way to attract more view HAH!) that all atheists are stupid. I'm referring to those atheists who became so for the dumbest reasons. Below are some listed, and feel free if you like to add.

1) (I think the dumbest one) You were all good and faithfull before, but now that a relative or a friend died, you believe God can't exist or doesn't care. The reason this is a TERRIBLE reason to lose faith is because (unless you lived under a Theistic rock your whole life) you should know that there are thousands upon tens of thousands of deaths in the world, and a whole bunch of them meaningless, and a lot of them leaving childs parentless, and others extremely pointless like a drunk driver. But when you knew about these people dying, you didn't care. It's only when someone you KNOW that died that it matters right? I mean I'm sorry for your loss, but you are extremely self centered if this sounds like you.

2) "if God exists, why doesn't he smite me for my blasphemous ways." If you ever said this or thought this, go read the Torah, Bible, Koran or something about a monotheistic religion and you will see that every theistic religion covers this thoroughly. It is against God's nature to smite you and promised not to do it ever again after Noah's flood.

3) "If God exists and is good and cares, why does he let us suffer." This is kinda complicated at may seem like a good reason, but I'll try to explain this and show its not a good reason to be atheist, though if you do think this, I really will not think less of you, like i would if you are #1 and #2. The reason that God lets us suffer is cause he has to. If no one ever experienced any suffering, there would be no such thing as good and joy either. I mean if you had a good life and never knew that there was possibly anything earth, you wouldn't recognize your life is good because there is nothing (at least to you) worse than the life you already have. Without evil there is no good and vice versa.

and that's all i have. Just for fun here are some bad reason to BE theistic.

1) "dissprove the existance of God" (again, #1 is the dumbest. since this is an atheist forum i don't think i need to explain the stupidity of this and the following quotes, but will if you request)

2) "he exists because i believe he does"

3) "The bible says so"

4) "How else do you account for the wonders of the world?"

... and i'm out. Have fun debating this

[Whitney]

I agree that 1 and 2 are dumb reasons.....

3 is one of the reasons I started doubting the existance of a God; but not the reason I don't believe.

I think I'd put theistic reason number 3 at the top and move 1 down a notch.

----

There was a Buddhist on another forum trying to convince non-believers to follow Buddhism....he also said that you don't have to believe any of the  spiritual stuff to be a Buddhist; just follow the teachings.

[MikeyV]

I don't agree with you on point 1 at all. You may percieve it as dumb, but I don't think you have any sort of handle of the motivators that drive one to atheism. Number 1 is a perfectly valid route.

Most of us go through life with a myopic worldview. Death has different meanings for all of us. The feelings we have over the death of another vary from person to person. I, for example, am not bothered by the death of most adults. Children's death bothers me. Accidental death is sad, while deliberate death is infuriating. But, for the most part, I can't seem to get myself too worked up over the death of strangers. They are anonymous, I have no vested interest in their lives. Their death does not affect me in any way. I don't spend time pondering the death of strangers.

Losing a loved one, although it seems selfish to you, can be for most, a very painfull experience. These people do affect us, and have great impact on our daily lives. They aren't some nameless faceless corpse half a world away. Part of coming to terms with this death is questioning what you believe. For some, it will reaffirm their faith. For others, it will lead to a shattering of faith. Once the faith is shattered, the real quest can begin. It would be like taking the blinders off. Once you realize you can be angry at god, you realize that you can question god's very existence.

I argue that this is not dumb, but vital for some.

Please note that I didn't come to atheism this route. I am slightly (ok, a lot) misanthropic. I'd really only care if my wife and children died. I don't really care about the rest of my family, nor the rest of the world.

As for number 2, yeah, it's dumb. However, I have never met an atheist that came by disbelief via 2.

I don't buy your argument for 3. You are dealing in absolutes that I don't think are absolutes. I've never really experienced suffering, but I have experienced joy. I can recognize good without having to search for a contrasting evil. These concepts are not as intertwined as people think.

Poor analogy time...

Imagine you lived in a utopian society. There is no crime, or death other than from occasional accidents and natural causes. In other words, you have not been exposed to evil. Now imagine you saw a person run into a burning building and rescue a child from a fire. Wouldn't you see this act as brave and heroic, or good?

They are 4 seperate concepts, this good/evil suffering/joy. They are so seperate that you can see good in the midst of evil, and experience joy while suffering.

So, in my opinion, you only have 1 dumb reason.

[ryanvc76]

I find it sad that we so often discuss why one lost faith or stopped believing.  The real mystery at hand is, why does one believe these myths in the first place.

Kids believe in several myths - Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc.  However, as a part of maturing and becoming more educated, you come to the realization that they are exactly that - myths.  Keep in mind, these myths actually produce tangible results, albeit parents are playing the part.  Santa left presents, the Easter Bunny hid eggs and gifts, and the Tooth Fairy left cash in place of my old teeth.

Religions have became so powerful and corrupt thoughout time by playing off of the fears of people and claiming to have answers to the worlds unanswered questions, such as afterlife, creation, etc.  If everyone could just grasp the fact that we don't have the answers for everything, they could begin to understand that religion is bogus.  Then, we could start teaching our children accordingly and the world could start to pull its head out of its ass.

I think that any reason, regardless of what it took to wake the individual up, is a good reason to become an atheist.  If a person decides to walk on the sidewalk instead of in the street, it's a wise choice no matter what persuaded them to do so.

1) "dissprove the existance of God"

Better yet, prove the existence.  Nobody asks us to disprove the existence of the invisible pink unicorn or one-eyed, fire-breathing monsters with a penis on their shoulder.

2) "he exists because i believe he does"

Lots of people have imaginary friends...  It's considered a mental illness.

3) "The bible says so"

A book written by people that thought someone having an epileptic seizure was possessed by demons and should be burned to death.

4) "How else do you account for the wonders of the world?"

Face it, we don't know everything about anything.  Any fool can write a fictional story that gives answers to your questions - it doesn't mean that it's the correct answer.

Just my 2 cents.   :wink:

[MommaSquid]

Torlin, who are you to say what is a "good" reason or a "stupid" reason for becoming an atheist?  [British accent]  Piss off, then.  [/accent]  

I'm usually much nicer than that, so maybe it's the PMS talking.  Then again, maybe not.

Regarding Buddhism, I considered that religion but couldn't swallow the whole karma and reincarnation thing.  Why does every religion have some magical mumbo-jumbo as a membership requirement?

[Whitney]

The main problem I see with listing reasons (for either "side") is because people normally don't have just one reason why they believe or don't believe.      Some reasons that may seem silly or not so good by themselves may be strong when put alongside other reasons.

[Setec]

1, 2, and 3 are all kind of dumb reasons by themselves to be an atheist, but all of them make sense when taken in combination with the other, much better reasons.  And because even stupid atheist reasons are less stupid than the reasons to believe in God, all three of your reasons are cause for believers to begin doubting themselves... which is a good thing.  They'll arrive at more logical reasons once the seed of doubt is planted.

[noname]

Why does every religion have some magical mumbo-jumbo as a membership requirement?[/quote]

To instill fear or to make it more exciting, like watching a fantasy movie.

[BGMA]

Um, point 3 is part of the riddle of Epicurus.  The Riddle of Epicurus, also known as the Epicurean Paradox (or more generally as the Problem of Evil) is often paraphrased as follows:


“Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?”


There's a lot more on the various arguments at http://www.freewebs.com/thebgma/a16arguments.html .