without comment!!!

[omdatov]

Yesterday, i decided to leave this forum, but i forgot something to say,
before that, i want to say something about your comments specially the comment of Karras, you must know that i didn't answer someone who want to have fun with my religion ,my God and my prophet who are more precious than my self,my family and all the hole world, and i will say to you like our prophet Noah, peace be upon him, said to his nation [36. It was revealed to Noah: "None of thy people will believe except those who have believed already! So grieve no longer over their (evil) deeds.
37. "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
38. Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark: Every time that the chiefs of his people passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. He said: "If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!
39. "But soon will ye know who it is on whom will descend a penalty that will cover them with shame,- on whom will be unloosed a penalty lasting:" ] [Qur'an]

For me i converted 10 people ( with their different religions)  to the islam (by the help of God)and i will continue.
The most important thing which i want to say : i swear that you will remeber what i wrote the previous three days in a day full of remorses when disbelievers says as he said Allah in the Qur'an :["99. (In Falsehood will they be) Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: "O my Lord! send me back (to life),-
100. "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up."] [Qur'an]
If Allah(God) don't like to lead someone to the right way ,all the humanity can't do anything for this person,like Allah says to our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him,the most nobel person in the humanity who wants to convert  his oncle "Abu Talib" ,who loves him very much, to the islam :["56. It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance. "] [Qur'an] , so what about me the poor peson who make a lot of evil before can make this.
I will ask my God in the day of judgment to see all the members of this forum how they feel,specially you Karras who make fun with my religion, you can say that i'm crazy ,but you will see,just wait a few years...OK.
Really you make me so sad,your are deprived from the real happiness, i tryed with all my effort to share it with you but...
For me Allah give me many signs that he exists and he is near to me with his power and strength, when i tryed to be more near him , he gives me signs more stonger than the last ones.
i swear that if i wrote just a 1 sign you will say that i'm crazy, you are deprived from the strongest meaning of love, not to love a pretty girl or your intimate friend , is to love your God, when i read the Quran(with arabic language) i become craying because i see what he will happen to the disbeliever, and how my God will reword the believer. this is the real happinest which could not be bought, even the king of kings in this world who have evry things can feel 1/.... of this feeling.
I hope that you understand me, i hope that. Please ,i'm not preaching ,you must understand that , please, you have a merciful God as Allah says in the Qur'an :["53. Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
54. "Turn ye to our Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that ye shall not be helped.
55. "And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while ye perceive not!-
56. "Lest the soul should (then) say: 'Ah! Woe is me!- In that I neglected (my duty) towards Allah, and was but among those who mocked!'-
57. "Or (lest) it should say: 'If only Allah had guided me, I should certainly have been among the righteous!'-
58. "Or (lest) it should say when it (actually) sees the penalty: 'If only I had another chance, I should certainly be among those who do good!'
59. "(The reply will be:) 'Nay, but there came to thee my Signs, and thou didst reject them: thou wast Haughty, and became one of those who reject faith!'"
60. On the Day of Judgment wilt thou see those who told lies against Allah.- their faces will be turned black; Is there not in Hell an abode for the Haughty?
61. But Allah will deliver the righteous to their place of salvation: no evil shall touch them, nor shall they grieve"] [ Qur'an]

The administrator,moderator... i promise you that is the last post and i will leave this forum . Not to have fun or enjoy my life, i have a mission to do it for me i havn't the word "to lose" in my dictionnary,i will try to show others and others the right way (with the help of my God) untill my day of death will come.
So,enjoy your life and you must know that there are two ways even you are convinced or no one takes to the HELL the other to the PARADISE which are well-described in the Holy Quran.
The period of residence in them is THE ETERNAL.
Finally, i want to say to who prefer to still in his darkness as he said our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, to the disbeleiver of Quraiech :
["1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine. "] [ chapter 109 :The atheists, Qur'an]

  Bye

[AlP]

That's got to count.

:yay:  

[Whitney]

That's got to count.

:yay:  

It sure does.

[Squid]

...the hole world...

...ahh, hole world, that explains everything...

[karadan]

...the hole world...

...ahh, hole world, that explains everything...

 lol

[Karras]

Omdatov,

I know it is not very sporting to say this when you cannot respond and I know you will likely not read this but I'm going to say it anyway.

Yes, I did make fun a little but you will note that I backed my comments up with links to Qur'anic verses, and other Muslim writings. I am afraid my links did not quite work out so they did not point to the specific quotes I had in mind.

Rather than trying to distract us with the so called scientific miracles of the qur'an, I think you should focus more on the moral bankrupcy of it and ask yourself why it even includes these verses. Why does it give pretty explicit instructions to beat your wife? Why does it tell you to slay the unbeliever? In this latter example, even if you claim that the unbelievers provoked this action, it hardly fits with the "turn the other cheek" attitude, typically adopted by those truly promoting peace. Why did the "prophet of peace" wear chainmail? Why was he even in a battle to begin with? The only peace this is compatible with is the peace of the grave and the peace of having killed all who oppose you.

If you had come here with an open mind, with the intention of having a discussion about your beliefs, we would no doubt still be debating these points in a calm, civilized manner. Instead, you came here to preach, which led in turn to you making excuses for atrocities. Is it any wonder you were not taken seriously?

[B.omdatov]

Hello, i'm the brother of omdatov , he told me to send this message:"
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
 Praise be to Allah who says in the Quran :["40. Those who pervert the Truth in Our Signs are not hidden from Us. Which is better?- he that is cast into the Fire, or he that comes safe through, on the Day of Judgment? Do what ye will: verily He seeth (clearly) all that ye do.
41. Those who reject the Message when it comes to them (are not hidden from Us). And indeed it is a Book of exalted power.
42. No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it: It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise.
43. Nothing is said to thee that was not said to the apostles before thee: that thy lord has at his Command (all) forgiveness as well as a most Grievous Penalty.
44. Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" ] [qur'an]

Karras,
Sorry for this late reply,i were so busy, today will start the greatest month in the year is the month of "Ramadan" so i will stay busy,so if you have any questions i will answer it after a month InchAllah, but not in this Forum, you can send any question to this Email: //omda_dhahri@yahoo.fr
First you have to know a very important thing that the Quran is the word of God so it's impossible to find in it any contradictions or wrong instructions for the humanity.
Be sure that all instructions in the Quran are full of wise, for a simple reason :God who creates us knows what's can be the most benifit for us so he orders us to do it, and what's can be harmful for us so he orders us to avoid it.
But our limited minds can think that some instructtions wich seems for us harmful in fact it's not ,vice vers , and this is the total wisdom of our God (you will understand me later).
Also some people even muslims one understand the Quran with a wrong way,because they explain the Quran refering to their minds that's why they will make wrong behaviours,the real muslim must refer to the Hadith and the Sahaba of Mohammed , peace be upon him, such us "Ibn Abbas", "Ibn Maasoud"...those people Allah(God) gives them the gift of explaining the Quran.
I said before that just to read the Quran and Hadith can make a lot of confusions for the reader, to reveal the truth we must refer to the explanation of Quran and Hadith,thousands of islamic writer are passing their life in doing this.
Finally, i want to say that there are some critical subjects in the islam that non-islamic nation specially jewish try to distort these subject and show to the world that the islam is the religion of killing people,devastating ...but all this is not true.
 Now i will answer your questions:
 First you said in your comment :"I think you should focus more on the moral bankrupcy of it", a person who speaks about moral bankrupcy in the Quran it means that he didn't understand the Quran.
-Your first question was: Why does it give pretty explicit instructions to beat your wife?
The answer is: Allah said in his book (Quran) :["34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). "] [Qur'an]
All books specialized in explaining means of Quran (commentary books) are in arabic language ,for me i found very big problems to translate ,what i need from these books ,to english. Finally i found a small commentary done by some muslim brothers who makes a small software wich contains an english translation to the Quran with some commentaries,if you are intrested i will send it to you.
commentary of this verse(number 34):
The prophet said :" Revere Allah in your treatment of women, they are an aid to you.But when they are unfaithful to the mariage-bed,then beat them but not to cause injury;supply them with victuals eatables and drinkable and clothe them"
And in women's abuse-be it injurious speech or action he said :"The best among you is he who is kind to his family and i'm the best among you to show kindness to my family."
And in violence he said:"None of you shall beat his wife as he beats camels,he whips her in the morning and approaches her at night."
Companions and jurists advised that any of these steps must be taken in private to void her disgrace and dishonour.
After this commentary i will give you some infromations and statistics:
You have to know that our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, never beat one of his women,he used to play,joke and do the household with them...
Muslim writers said that "to beat your wife" is the last solution whenthe wife insisit to not to do his duties toward her husbands,and they advise husbands to avoid this solution more they can.
to beat your wife in the islam it means that you musn't make any trace of injury in her body ,it like the mother who beats his son to show to him that she's angry,but some muslim man are misunderstanding these verses and they beat their wife with a wide manner.
The new statistics shows that in islamic world only few numbers of wife sue to the court against their husbands because they beat them.
In America: 79% of american husbands beat their wife till they make a tare in them.
17% of them are seriously injured... This is reported by D.Jhon Pyreh professor in the university of Carolina.
FTP said that in America a wife is beated by her husband evry 18 seconds!!
FAMILY RELATION newspaper reported that " 1 of two women in America is beated and abused by her husband.
In France: 2 millions women are beated by their husband evry year......
In United Kingdom: 77% of women are beated by their husband with any reason....
i have more and more statistics but i think this is enough.

-Your second question: Why does it tell you to slay the unbeliever?
The answer is : Allah said in the Quran:["7. It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
8. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
9. Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."]
These verses are so clear, but i will try to explain them more, unbelievers are two types  peaceful one it means that they didn't like war or they didn't help the ennemies of islam this type the islam prevent us to kill them .The other type is combatant one who hate muslims and go to their countries and kill them this type is our enemy and we must kill it also evry one who gives help to our enemy is an enemy..  
In deed, the Holy Quran order us to respect all the prophets without any exeption, and if any muslim have fun with any one of them he will became a disbeliever,but the greatest prophet, peace be upon him, is insulted in many times ...Sorry, there are a lot of rules between the muslims and the two type od disbeliever, if you are intrested Karras or anyone of you he can send me his email and i will answer him.
To explain more i will answer your two last question with the second one because they are in big relation.
questio 3&4: Why did the "prophet of peace" wear chainmail? Why was he even in a battle to begin with?
Who knows the greatest men in the humanity he will not ask these questions.
You know what's your problem that you take your islamic infromations from people who hate the islam and try to make a bad picture of it (kill,blood,devastate...)
If you continue with this way you will never find the truth , to find it you must read the Quran with a good explanation of it, the Hadith and his explanation, the life of our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him...For me when i were an atheist one  to reach the truth i didn't sleep the night reading and reading (Quran,Hadith,Bibel,Tora....) to find the truth...Now i praise Allah who lead me to the truth, i see the truth, i feel the truth, i breath the truth...But after a so big tiredness.
 Many disbelievers are converted to the islam when they read the life of our prophet,you know to write all his life we need to right dozens of book,that's why all the islamic writers are extracting just the most important events from his life,and here the same problem that all books wich describe his life are wrotten in arabic, but i promise you i will send to you an english translation if you are intrested.
Now i will take only 3  noble acts from thousands of it .
  Mohammad, peace be upon him, his prophecy began at the age of forty, he was responsible to publish his message to all the humanity because all the humanity are conserned to yhis last message of our God.
  so our prophet began with the people of his village (Mecca) and he said to them that there a one God the creator of all things  but they appose him and they said that he's a crazy men ,he ask them to leave their all Gods and worship just a one God as he said Allah in the Quran;["4. So they wonder that a Warner has come to them from among themselves! and the Unbelievers say, "This is a sorcerer telling lies!
5. "Has he made the gods (all) into one Allah. Truly this is a wonderful thing!" ] [qur'an] after that they began torturing him and the few number who are believing his message.

 So Mohammad, peace be upon him,decided to go to another village near to his village wich called "Attaef",he speaks with leaders of this village instead of believing him they ordered the boys of this village to throw him with stone , they insult him,beat him...His face,his leg are so bloody...
He reached a region far away from this village,Mohammad, peace be upon him,saw a so tremendous men he said to him that he's the angel of mountains:Allah send me to you so if you want  i will order the Alkchabayn to destroy the village of "Attaef" ( for info: Alkchabayn are two enermous mountain, the village "Attaef" existed between of them) the prophet of peace said to the angel : "No, may be the next generations of this village would worship Allah".

The second act: When the nation of islam became a strong one our prophet sent, peace be upon him,sent many armies to different places to expand his message ,so he gave them many instructions, the prophet of peace said to them:" you must to fight only who fight you, you havn't to kill any women,you haven't to kill any boy,you have to treat their prisoners with a good manner, you haven't to cut any tree or kill their animals."
Karras,lets make a small comparaison betwenn the American(European) army and the islamic ethics in the war.
Statistics of American war against the Iraq's state  shows that :
-Approx 2 million child are homeless.
-Approx 1 million killed in Iraq !!!
-2.5 are injured with different degree!!
-3 thousand women are sexually abused by the American military.
-the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees estimated that 2.3 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 2 million were displaced internally, with nearly 160,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.
this reported by "Opinion Reaserch Business survey,Iraq Body count,Associated press"
Really is a dramatic numbers done by a country claimed that it's the country of democracy and peace!!
and there more and more
The biggest slaughter done by the israelian army in the new history:In 16-7-1982 ;4 thousand palestinian people were wildly killed in 42 hours !!!
1997  in Bosnia, the slaughter of Serb against Bosnian muslims...............the bnew history is full of these types of slaughter against muslim and i will show you more and more InchaAllah
-The third act: The prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, the leader of all the humanity used to pass more than 2 monthes without food( he eats only a few number of date evry day) because he havn't money or his mony was givven to the poor people in Madina...
 When i read the life of our prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him,i discovered a great person and anyone say bad things about our prophet,i say to him read the life of leader of humanity then we will talk.
 Finally, i hope that Allah leads you to the right way.
 Good Bye, Omdatov.

[Karras]

Dude, if you are going to make a sock puppet, you could at least wash the sock first.

Brother of Omdatov? Yeah, right!  

[curiosityandthecat]

[Thom Phelps]

Please Omdatov, please come back. You see, I have seen the error of my ways and have converted to Islam this very morning. I'm not sure if I'm praying in the right direction though as I do not have a compass. Is this a big deal? Will I go to hell for this?

Anyway, I want to be the best Muslim I can possibly be so I wonder if you can help me with a few things...

Karras, stop! My sides hurt. And I think I'm converted, too!     When do I get my [strike:nfp360z9]virgins[/strike:nfp360z9] raisins?

[Karras]

Please Omdatov, please come back. You see, I have seen the error of my ways and have converted to Islam this very morning. I'm not sure if I'm praying in the right direction though as I do not have a compass. Is this a big deal? Will I go to hell for this?

Anyway, I want to be the best Muslim I can possibly be so I wonder if you can help me with a few things...

Karras, stop! My sides hurt. And I think I'm converted, too!  

By the way, for the sake of fairness, I'm not quite sure about the 4 witnesses thing anymore. I have heard the counter-argument that it refers only to adultery and not rape so I will retract that one for now (though in at least some Islamic cultures it seems an unproven rape can end up being viewed as adultery so maybe there is still a connection).

I remain confident of the validity of the other points, however and I can find more on demand.

Edit: Oh and Omdatov MkII, I said focus on the moral bankrupcy not apologetically  hand wave it away or bring up irrelevant statistics to try and prove other people do bad things too (well duh).

[Tanker]

Wow just wow. That is above and beyone the worst sock puppet name EVER. I literaly laughed out loud when I saw it. Dude even if you had picked a better name your cut and paste wall o' texts style would have gotten you rebanned anyway. You sir have suceeded at failing.

[Karras]

The funny thing is that he seems to have come back mainly for me. That makes me feel so...special.  

I wonder Omdatov MkII, does that mean I am at the centre of your universe because I'm not sure I want the responsibility?

[Whitney]

Omdatov's ban has been extended another 7 days (it had expired..the avatar was just still set to ban since I hadn't manually removed it) and his "brother" has also been given a 7 day ban for disregarding forum policy by helping his "brother" get around a ban.  Even though the IPs didn't match, I'm treating this like a sock puppet situation.  Both Omdatov's will be banned if they return and continue to not follow forum rules.

[buttercupbaby]

Sorry, not converting.  I don't look good in black.