News:

Actually sport it is a narrative

Main Menu

Circumcision

Started by Sophus, July 11, 2009, 07:44:43 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

jbeukema

I do not support religious genital mutilation with little to no medical benefit evidenced by modern research.

jbeukema

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Some studies have also shown that infant circumcision affects the pain response in those infants even five months down the line.  Later studies have compared the effect to PTSD.
Do you have links to these later studies, or know where or by whom they were performed?

-43-

It is what it is, an archaic custom. But nobody is really harmed by it, so my apathy levels on circumcision are high.

Arctonyx

Quote from: "-43-"It is what it is, an archaic custom. But nobody is really harmed by it, so my apathy levels on circumcision are high.

Circumcision can lead to many problems in later life, but it is more the repulsion at taking something away from someone, without their consent, that they can never get back. There are some medical conditions where circumcision is a solution (such as hardening or tightening of the foreskin), but for religious reasons alone I would say that it is wrong. If they get to an age where they are allowed all the facts and can make a rational decision, and still want it done then I have nothing against it, it's their choice after all. But how can you do that to a child who has not even learnt his first word? He couldn't speak out against it even if he wanted to.

The only benefit of circumcision is hygiene, things like sensitivity vary so much from person to person anyway. Although some ladies do prefer a circumcised penis, again mostly for hygiene reasons.
This situation requires a special mix of psychology, and extreme violence! - The Young Ones

-43-

Are you pro-choice?
(I am, but you sound as if you aren't)

Heretical Rants

Quote from: "-43-"Are you pro-choice?
(I am, but you sound as if you aren't)

I don't see how...  these things are completely unrelated.

Tanker

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"
Quote from: "-43-"Are you pro-choice?
(I am, but you sound as if you aren't)

I don't see how...  these things are completely unrelated.

Hey it maks total sense to me I was about to ask what her favorite type of bagel is.

(-43- unless you somehow have a connection for those topics I would recomend an im for curiosity)
"I'd rather die the go to heaven" - William Murderface Murderface  Murderface-

I've been in fox holes, I'm still an atheist -Me-

God is a cake, and we all know what the cake is.

(my spelling, grammer, and punctuation suck, I know, but regardless of how much I read they haven't improved much since grade school. It's actually a bit of a family joke.

jbeukema

Quote from: "-43-"It is what it is, an archaic custom. But nobody is really harmed by it, so my apathy levels on circumcision are high.
http://www.circinfo.net/

http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/natura ... born03.htm

http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio/

http://www.cirp.org/pages/whycirc.html

-43-

Quote from: "Arctonyx"
Quote from: "-43-"It is what it is, an archaic custom. But nobody is really harmed by it, so my apathy levels on circumcision are high.

Circumcision can lead to many problems in later life, but it is more the repulsion at taking something away from someone, without their consent, that they can never get back. There are some medical conditions where circumcision is a solution (such as hardening or tightening of the foreskin), but for religious reasons alone I would say that it is wrong. If they get to an age where they are allowed all the facts and can make a rational decision, and still want it done then I have nothing against it, it's their choice after all. But how can you do that to a child who has not even learnt his first word? He couldn't speak out against it even if he wanted to.

The only benefit of circumcision is hygiene, things like sensitivity vary so much from person to person anyway. Although some ladies do prefer a circumcised penis, again mostly for hygiene reasons.
That is a very pro-choice phrase, it's a common argument in any debate I have with that group.

Arctonyx

#54
Quote from: "-43-"That is a very pro-choice phrase, it's a common argument in any debate I have with that group.

I personally don't like abortion, but I realise that I have no right to judge others who go through with it, because they do so for their own personal reasons. Especially when factors such as rape, harm to the mother and abuse are involved. Take for example a case in Ireland a while back, a pregnant 14 year old who was raped, who was trying to travel to England to get an abortion was arrested and forced to go through lengthy court proceedings so she could travel to another country to have an abortion. And I disagree with the Irish authorities who perpetrated such a horrible act, so although I personally do not like abortion, you could probably describe me as pro-choice.
This situation requires a special mix of psychology, and extreme violence! - The Young Ones

SSY

Why respond at all if you are not going to continue the discussion or defend your beliefs?

You still have not explained why you asked that, or given any evidence to backup your viewpoint. Even if Arctonyx is pro choice, what does that have to with cutting off bits of peoples dicks?
Quote from: "Godschild"SSY: You are fairly smart and to think I thought you were a few fries short of a happy meal.
Quote from: "Godschild"explain to them how and why you decided to be athiest and take the consequences that come along with it
Quote from: "Aedus"Unlike atheists, I'm not an angry prick

Arctonyx

Quote from: "SSY"Why respond at all if you are not going to continue the discussion or defend your beliefs?

You still have not explained why you asked that, or given any evidence to backup your viewpoint. Even if Arctonyx is pro choice, what does that have to with cutting off bits of peoples dicks?

Well I assume the phrase is going to be turned around and used against abortion, 'taking away something they have no choice in'. But then all that happens is we get into a debate of when life begins.
This situation requires a special mix of psychology, and extreme violence! - The Young Ones

Heretical Rants

Quote from: "Arctonyx"Well I assume the phrase is going to be turned around and used against abortion, 'taking away something they have no choice in'. But then all that happens is we get into a debate of when life begins.

It's not just that... it's totally different.  It's the difference between completely erasing a sketch on a canvas and removing an element that cannot be added later to the final painting, but still making the artist paint it, even though he may not be as happy with the final result.

Kylyssa

Quote from: "jbeukema"
Quote from: "Kylyssa"Some studies have also shown that infant circumcision affects the pain response in those infants even five months down the line.  Later studies have compared the effect to PTSD.
Do you have links to these later studies, or know where or by whom they were performed?

I totally missed this question as I had stepped away from the thread because so many people became so upset about questioning circumcision.

I'll look around for some of my notes but one specific study I recall offhand was done by Doctors Ramos & Boyle somewhere between 2000 and 2002 in the Phillipines.  Then there were studies and medical publications from  Levy, Wright, Goldman and Cansever (who I will never forget because his name is can sever), and numerous others whose names I can't recall offhand.  I'll get more details once I find the notes to the articles I researched for - it was one computer and several re-formats ago.

Sophus

San Francisco may be voting next year on whether or not to outlaw circumcision. Of course the argument against it is, "It's your choice, it's your child...government can't rule us on everything we do." The way I see it: not your penis, not your choice. I'll never understand what makes some parents think they can own another human being.

Anyways, there's some opinion pieces published here on this debate.
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver