A little help needed.

[Neoncamouflage]

My dad is unhappy about it, as is to be expected, but he says religion is a personal choice and it's not his place to do anything more than give his views on it.

Though I would like to have an argument to end it all I can't stand debating religion with family. She'll present her arguments sometimes and, though I have answers that leave her point invalid, I usually just say I don't know or that I'll think about it.

Lately she's on this kick about I must be a Christian since I believe ghosts could be real.

[Tanker]

My dad is unhappy about it, as is to be expected, but he says religion is a personal choice and it's not his place to do anything more than give his views on it.

Though I would like to have an argument to end it all I can't stand debating religion with family. She'll present her arguments sometimes and, though I have answers that leave her point invalid, I usually just say I don't know or that I'll think about it.

Lately she's on this kick about I must be a Christian since I believe ghosts could be real.

Atheism isn't really a choice any more then no longer beliving in Santa Clause is a choice. When evidence in no longer stong enough to support a belief you simply stop believing.

Ghosts have nothing to do with Atheism. Atheism is the simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. The Idea of ghosts existing, while often connected with religion, is not dependant on religion. While I personally don't belive in ghosts I do think there is a great many things we don't yet know or understand and the existance of ghosts, while unlikely, is not impossible.

[thiolsulfate]

My dad is unhappy about it, as is to be expected, but he says religion is a personal choice and it's not his place to do anything more than give his views on it.

Though I would like to have an argument to end it all I can't stand debating religion with family. She'll present her arguments sometimes and, though I have answers that leave her point invalid, I usually just say I don't know or that I'll think about it.

Don't concede, make her points invalid. Every time she "wins" it just reinforces her unjustified faith and makes her think she's winning you over and ultimately she'll just be more impassioned about bringing it up.

If you can parse out her favorite "argument" counter it. I'll even help you; what is her favorite "argument?"

Lately she's on this kick about I must be a Christian since I believe ghosts could be real.

You don't really believe in ghosts, do you?

[Neoncamouflage]

Her arguments are very simple: religion has answers science doesn't, where does personality come from, and of course, ghosts need souls.

I think it's possible, whether it's spirits or something else. I've had many encounters with the ghosts of a man and his little dog, as have many others. So I'm inclined to give it a chance.

[thiolsulfate]

Her arguments are very simple: religion has answers science doesn't, where does personality come from, and of course, ghosts need souls.

I see, so she's a god of the gaps person. Damn.

I suppose "science WILL have an answer" won't be sufficient. Explaining that god as a default explanation of phenomena is as unreasonable as "a wizard did it" probably won't be convincing either.

Also, psychology and psychiatry do explain where personality comes from; quite convincingly, too.

I think it's possible, whether it's spirits or something else. I've had many encounters with the ghosts of a man and his little dog, as have many others. So I'm inclined to give it a chance.

I don't want to derail this topic, but I would really like to examine this experience. There may be a more physical explanation to this that you may be missing.  I've had my own experiences with "ghosts" which, after some inquiry, I have found natural explanations for.

[Neoncamouflage]

Already tried those back when this first started, she says that's  still not proof for religion. I'll look into that personality stuff, I'd like to hear the theories on it.

Just things like seeing a shadowy figure pass by a doorway, or a plate falls off the counter in the middle of the night. Footsteps or barking when someone's here alone, though that's a bit less common. Not major but I think something's going on.

[Whitney]

Thanks guys, I guess you're right. I wish she would just start an argument, the biting comments kinda eat at me. I'd like to get it all over with.

And I can see how that fairytale joke would go over. Very very badly. She already flipped out on me once because I was visiting a site that detailed bible contradictions. Said if I kept reading that trash I was living with relatives...

I think you could get her to quit saying stuff like that if you responded "So you can just quit loving me at the drop of a hat simply because I no longer share your religious views?  I still love you even though you've been really mean to me lately."  Basically, make her guilt trips backfire.

[Neoncamouflage]

Lol, yeah. She's told me that my Atheism hurts her more than if I murdered someone. That was just trying to make me feel bad though, I hope.

[thiolsulfate]

Already tried those back when this first started, she says that's  still not proof for religion. I'll look into that personality stuff, I'd like to hear the theories on it.

Rock and a hard place, my friend. I really don't know. There isn't much that can be done on your end. Just go about your life as you did before. The only thing that might make her think is when she realizes that you're the same person you were before she found out; that you're not  raping puppies (I hope you're not raping puppies) or strangling rainbows to death. Maybe she'll understand that she's the one not being fair.

For me, my parents still ask me to go to church and sometimes get surprised or upset when Sunday rolls around and I'm still in bed.

On your end I think what might be best is looking for a reason to get out of the house, not to bum around and just get away, do something incredibly productive. Look an area of self improvement to show that being an atheist doesn't automatically make someone bad. For me, I joined a gym and exercise twice a day; it got me away from my parents when they were still overbearing, I'm healthy and fit, and, most importantly, I did it all while being an atheist. They have nothing to say. You could do what I did and go for physical improvement, or you could spend your time in the library, anything to make it blatantly and brutally clear that you're still a good person.

Just things like seeing a shadowy figure pass by a doorway, or a plate falls off the counter in the middle of the night. Footsteps or barking when someone's here alone, though that's a bit less common. Not major but I think something's going on.

In terms of your ghost, sensory stimuli that are interpreted as ghosts can be explained away either by being mistaken or misinterpretation of stimuli. Sights and noises can very easily be manipulated into things other than what they are. (On a side note, hearing dogs doesn't seem that shocking to me.)

For example when I would study I would have all the lights in my room off except for a desk lamp. Whenever I would hear a noise (likely from the pressure and compression differentials of the materials in the house) I would turn and watch the open doorway to my room slowly brighten, as though there had been something there. Now I know it's just normal adjustment of the eye to darkness.

If dishware is falling on the floor I would set up a camera every night until I caught how the plates became ambulatory. Assuming no foul play, it's likely a product of physics and not ghosts.

I won't claim to know the specifics of what you experienced or how you reached your conclusion, but "ghosts!", to me, is a rather outrageous conclusion to arrive at.

[thiolsulfate]

Lol, yeah. She's told me that my Atheism hurts her more than if I murdered someone. That was just trying to make me feel bad though, I hope.

My parents told me that my becoming an atheist made them fail as parents.

I felt bad for a little while -- then I realized it wasn't true. I suppose if their sole purpose in having kids was to make Catholics then they failed -- thrice -- but I don't suspect that's the case.

How long has it been since they discovered the horrible truth?

(On a side note my father once told me that he would throw me out of the house if I was gay. I challenged him and said I was [I'm not] and dared him to explain to his friends and family why his son no longer lives with him. After much squirming he shut up.

Unfortunately, atheists are much easier to demonize than gays -- though I suppose they'd be equally hated in WV.)

[Chimera]

I'm going to guess it's this one:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

It's certainly one of the best.

 

Thanks!

[Neoncamouflage]

I dunno, maybe some part of me wants them to be real just because it'd be really cool.

I do work out and train already, but maybe getting a job would help. The extra cash wouldn't hurt either.

[Heretical Rants]

All of my ghosts have been an example of matrixing:  The tendency for our minds to find familiar patterns in random shapes and sounds.

I suspect that my prophetic dreams are just little integrations of where events in my life are going.
Yes, I have prophetic dreams, some of them surprisingly accurate  
I predicted my friend would say "De Ja mooooooo" when I had never heard it said that way before.

[Neoncamouflage]

While reading your replies I've discovered something: you're all way smarter than me..... How am I going to hold my own in conversation?

Still, it's good to see the community here is just as kind and helpful as when I left. Props to all.

[thiolsulfate]

While reading your replies I've discovered something: you're all way smarter than me..... How am I going to hold my own in conversation?

Still, it's good to see the community here is just as kind and helpful as when I left. Props to all.

Don't fuss about it too much. It's always hard being one of the most reviled minorities in the country. Just let your curiosity take you where it will and your brain will take care of the rest.