A secular universe is more meaningful

[liveyoungdiefast]

I know some non-religious people are nihilists, personally I don't like nihilist point of view myself but I have often seen religious folks assume that a life of non-religion is automatically nihilistic. I've been told things like "If you think there's nothing after death, why not just kill yourself?", that's an extreme example, I've had debates in much more polite terms.

 But I had this discussion with my girlfriend and we both seemed to agree that if God is out there with some perfect standard, our lives on Earth really don't add up to much and neither do our beliefs. But if death is just death, then we at least have the chance to engrave our names in history. And if death is just death, people can die with their beliefs meaning something. If a divine God has a perfect standard, all your convictions on moral issues and politics and the like are completely worthless. In a universe where we are on our own, all of the ideas of man can at least then be recorded and considered, and there may never be a definite right or wrong but at least then you could say your beliefs don't have to pale in comparison to a divine standard.

 Also on a different but sort of relevant note, I think the idea of eternal life really is without a point. If there was an afterlife, I could see only 2 purposes to it - to make amends for what you fucked up, or to reunite with your loved ones one more time, for closure. Why even keep living after that?

[curiosityandthecat]

personally I don't like nihilist point of view myself but I have often seen religious folks assume that a life of non-religion is automatically nihilistic. I've been told things like "If you think there's nothing after death, why not just kill yourself?", that's an extreme example, I've had debates in much more polite terms.

Better hope Cemetery doesn't see that.

Also on a different but sort of relevant note, I think the idea of eternal life really is without a point. If there was an afterlife, I could see only 2 purposes to it - to make amends for what you fucked up, or to reunite with your loved ones one more time, for closure. Why even keep living after that?

There's a thread somewhere around here about the concept of Heaven (i.e., an afterlife) and how it would really amount to an excruciatingly boring and awkward experience. Humans are more complicated than just, "Oh, goody, I get to see my old Aunt Mildred."

[Miss Anthrope]

Not arguing for a god or afterlife, but I don't really understand why it is necessarily without a point, or rather, what is really the point of this life? From an evolutionary perspective it's too simply survive long enough to produce offspring, who eventually do the same thing. So really, the point of this life is simply to contribute to an arguably pointless cycle, one which will eventually end. And if there is an afterlife, I think some creative thought could produce some more alternatives to the two you provided. For instance, what if it's like a dream-state and you're basically amnesiac when it comes to this life? It wouldn't really matter if you saw your loved ones, or who/what they might be in such an alternate life; in other words, in such a state of existence the "meaning" of "things" could be very ambiguous, more experiential.

Understand that I'm not  arguing your personal interpretation of "meaning", but it's a very subjective concept.

[Will]

Meaning is about as subjective as anything can get, but that doesn't necessarily make it unimportant. Validation is a part of who we are as a conscious, self-aware, and social species. It's developed into a necessary part of human existence and it can bring true joy to people's lives. Joy is one of those things that can't be quantified, and it's important for us, the various flavors of pragmatists, to recognize that while most things can be quantified, some things can't. And there's no failure in that, no denial, and no mental illness. If you feel the need to assign meaning to life, or to aspects of life, if you can find comfort in allowing yourself to find validation in a rational yet subjective understanding of the universe, then you're probably on the right path. I'm not saying nihilists have it wrong, because true contentment can be found in a life without those assigned meanings, but I've found that to really squeeze the juice out of life you need to search out things you can find joy in and submerge yourself in it.

[curiosityandthecat]

One word: postmodernism.