is america embracing socialsim

[VanReal]

The Federal Reserve has been the driving force in pushing us toward Socialism.  The constant printing of money without taking money out of circulation is the key to inflation.  Every generation the hard currency is debased.  The true value of the dollar has never been so low.

Um, the Federal Reserve does not just print money, they buy or sell securities to change the money supply in circulation, change the reserve ratio, and/or affect the interest rate for bank borrowing.  If they printed money without the appropriate backing our dollar would have been completely worthless long ago.  Our dollar isn't changing, it's buying power is due to aggregate price level changes over time primarily due to fiscal policy rather than monetary.  If the Fed did not create change to the money supply we would be in a stagflation right now (we are pretty close to that as is) and would be in far more trouble than we are now.  The Fed is our greatest economic strength, which we learned through the Great Depression.

[DennisK]

The Federal Reserve has been the driving force in pushing us toward Socialism.  The constant printing of money without taking money out of circulation is the key to inflation.  Every generation the hard currency is debased.  The true value of the dollar has never been so low.

Um, the Federal Reserve does not just print money, they buy or sell securities to change the money supply in circulation, change the reserve ratio, and/or affect the interest rate for bank borrowing.  If they printed money without the appropriate backing our dollar would have been completely worthless long ago.  Our dollar isn't changing, it's buying power is due to aggregate price level changes over time primarily due to fiscal policy rather than monetary.  If the Fed did not create change to the money supply we would be in a stagflation right now (we are pretty close to that as is) and would be in far more trouble than we are now.  The Fed is our greatest economic strength, which we learned through the Great Depression.

If I'm not mistaken, the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, decades before the Great Depression.  It was sold to President Roosevelt, Congress, and the American people to stabilize the dollar and economy.  It was supposed to prevent hard crashes like experienced in the 30's marking the beginning of the Great Depression.  Yet you think it deserves the credit for getting us out?  What it did was put U.S. currency in the hands of private elite bankers and charge us interest.  Now our dollar is virtually worthless.  We owe trillions of dollars to the elite banking establishment.  The dollar is worth pennies compared to what it was prior to the Federal Reserve.  The only thing a centralized bank produces is debt.

A brief history of the events prior to the Federal Reserve Act:
J.P. Morgan (a respected banker of his time) published rumors that a NY bank was going bankrupt causing a rush on the bank creating a domino effect on other banks.  Unaware of the fraud, Congress appointed Nelson Aldrich (who had intricate ties to the banking cartels and later married into the Rockefeller family) to investigate.  Aldrich recommended a centralized bank be established so the troubles experienced in 1907 wouldn't happen again.  The legislation was then written by bankers at a private meeting at one of J.P. Morgan's estates, not by Congress.  Prior to the formation of the federal reserve, our country never did better.  The problem (at least for the major banks) was that savings were happening all over the country and the big banks were losing business.

“the refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the revolution” â€"Benjamin Franklin

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."  -Thomas Jefferson

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside of the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States."  -Senator Barry Goldwater

The Federal Reserve is more powerful than our government.  This was by design.  And was it coincidence that the federal income tax was enacted the same year?  We have to pay for the interest somehow, eh?

This is an informative video if anyone is interested.  The first few minutes are dated, but it gets much better.  http://video.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wv

[VanReal]

If I'm not mistaken, the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, decades before the Great Depression.  It was sold to President Roosevelt, Congress, and the American people to stabilize the dollar and economy.  It was supposed to prevent hard crashes like experienced in the 30's marking the beginning of the Great Depression.

Actually it was put in place to stop person's from running on banks and bankrupting the system.  Prior to the Fed's establishment when the economy became "scary" people would run to the bank and pull out there money.  Most of those funds were not really there, they were issued as notes so the bank would bankrupt and whoever wasn't quick enough lost every penny.  It did stop that from occurring.

Yet you think it deserves the credit for getting us out?  What it did was put U.S. currency in the hands of private elite bankers and charge us interest.  Now our dollar is virtually worthless.  We owe trillions of dollars to the elite banking establishment.  The dollar is worth pennies compared to what it was prior to the Federal Reserve.  The only thing a centralized bank produces is debt.

Actually at the time the prevelent economica theory was that the economy was a self-correcting entity and the Fed and the government did not play active roles in trying to correct it.  The Great Depression actually idetified the "sticky wage" and showed that the economy, while it does run in waves does not always self correct and government fiscal policies or Fed monetary policies are sometimes necessary in order to aid its repair. (The bad thing is when they both act, that leads to disaster as we are seeing now).

That's correct, most people do not understand how money is created, and they do not understand the money multiplier, bank to bank lending, and loan return.  Money is somewhat confusing because it is not capital and it instrinsically is worthless.  However, our dollar has the same value it has always had, it is the price level that has changed.  We may have been able to buy a soda and candy bar for $0.50 years ago, the $0.50 is still $0.50, it's the soda and candy bar that have changed.  You can play with the inflation calculator, it's actually interesting.  It's not the value of the dollar that is changing, it's the buying power of that dollar.

The Fed does not print money to affect the money supply.  It sells securities and/or increases the bank to bank interest rate (not interest we pay to creditors) to reduce the money supply during inflation, or it buys securities and/or reduces the interest rate to increase the money supply during recession.  Unfortunately that's not an option right now because we are in a recession and there is inflation occurring (stagflation) so the government is going to have to enact fiscal policies to get us out of this mess.  The Fed has been rendered impotent at this moment in time, if they react to much while fiscal policy is occurring we may enter a hyperinflation, at which time I am going to start my garden and chicken coop.

Seriosuly though, our money is not worthless and is not just printed and distributed without reason.  If it were we would be in the same trouble as Zimbabwe is going through having to issue trillion dollar notes for consumer spending.  Our dollar is just fine, it's the rest of the economy that needs help.

Of course, this is economics and if you've ever watched or attended a summit you will see economists on every side of the fence, dangling from the poles, and trying to slide under.  That's why it's not part of the science department in school:)

[DennisK]

Actually it was put in place to stop person's from running on banks and bankrupting the system.  Prior to the Fed's establishment when the economy became "scary" people would run to the bank and pull out there money.  Most of those funds were not really there, they were issued as notes so the bank would bankrupt and whoever wasn't quick enough lost every penny.  It did stop that from occurring.

It was sold to Congress and the President as putting an end to inflation and instability, yes.  I did not do either.  For example, between 1914-1919 the amount of money in circulation doubled.   Smaller banks took out huge loans and lent that money out.  In 1920 the Fed called in mass amounts of the money in circulation causing these banks to call in their loans causing runs on banks (similar to 1907) and mass bankruptcies, repossessions, etc..  Over 5400 competitive banks outside the Federal Reserve system collapsed creating more consolidation for the big guys.

"Under the federal reserve act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientifically created one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation." -Charles Lindbergh 1921

A very similar thing happened from 1921-1929.  This time it was a margin loan that was called in.  Just prior to the call, Rockefeller and some other elites quietly exited the stock market.  Then came the stock market crash known as "Black Tuesday".  This time 16,000 banks went under and were bought by elites at pennies on the dollar and whole companies as well.  And rather than increasing the money supply, the Fed decreased it sending us into the Great Depression.

"The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers."  -Louis McFadden (Conressman from Pennsylvania, 1914-1934)

"We have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the FED. They are not government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers." -Louis McFadden

After a few assassination attempts, McFadden was poisoned and died.  He was unable to proceed with any impeachment attempts of Federal Reserve board members.  Are we seeing a trend.  The Fed started out corrupt and it is corrupt to this day.

[DennisK]

Actually it was put in place to stop person's from running on banks and bankrupting the system.  Prior to the Fed's establishment when the economy became "scary" people would run to the bank and pull out there money.  Most of those funds were not really there, they were issued as notes so the bank would bankrupt and whoever wasn't quick enough lost every penny.  It did stop that from occurring.

It was sold to Congress and the President as putting an end to inflation and instability, yes.  I did not do either.  For example, between 1914-1919 the amount of money in circulation doubled.   Smaller banks took out huge loans and lent that money out.  In 1920 the Fed called in mass amounts of the money in circulation causing these banks to call in their loans causing runs on banks (similar to 1907) and mass bankruptcies, repossessions, etc..  Over 5400 competitive banks outside the Federal Reserve system collapsed creating more consolidation for the big guys.

"Under the federal reserve act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientifically created one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation." -Charles Lindbergh 1921

A very similar thing happened from 1921-1929.  This time it was a margin loan that was called in.  Just prior to the call, Rockefeller and some other elites quietly exited the stock market.  Then came the stock market crash known as "Black Tuesday".  This time 16,000 banks went under and were bought by elites at pennies on the dollar and whole companies as well.  And rather than increasing the money supply, the Fed decreased it sending us into the Great Depression.

"The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers."  -Louis McFadden (Conressman from Pennsylvania, 1914-1934)

"We have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the FED. They are not government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers." -Louis McFadden

After a few assassination attempts, McFadden was poisoned and died.  He was unable to proceed with any impeachment attempts of Federal Reserve board members.  Are we seeing a trend.  The Fed started out corrupt and it is corrupt to this day.

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws" -Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of Rothschild banking dynasty.

Edit:  I forgot to attach this.  It is an extraordinary video which explains in laymen's terms what is going on. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

[VanReal]

Touche!  As I said, you will find people, professional and laymen, on both sides - for and against the Fed.