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[Janie1991]

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[Janie1991]

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[Whitney]

hi lese, welcome to the forum.

I think death is something that people have trouble with no matter what they believe about death.  We all have a very strong natural drive to avoid dying.  One of the unique  things about humans is that we are aware that we will eventually die.  While other animals do deomonstrate what we understand as grief; they probably do not really know that they will die one day.  I think that this understanding that we all will die someday is what leads to beliefs in the afterlife.  There is a lot of comfort in viewing separation from dead relatives as being something temporary.  But, when you take a realistic approach to death, you know there is no reason to believe an afterlife exists.  Grieving and dealing with our own inevitable deaths is different for those who are freethinkers.

For me, the following quote helped a lot (and I am paraphrasing):  "Do you remember what it was like before you were alive?  Well, that is what it will be like when you are dead."  None of us remember what it was like before we were alive because we didn't exist before we were alive; just as you won't exist after you are dead.  Basically, once you are dead you won't be around to worry about death.  So, being dead won't hurt you.

In looking at it this way, I have found that the only thing that scares me about death is the dying part.  But if you look at dying as yet another life experiece to be had you can work it into your journey rather than view it as an obstical.  From accepting that there is no afterlife you are accepting death as something real rather than hiding from it.  Although I do not want to die, I know it is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it.  So, I just live my life and don't worry about what I can't change.  Dealing with the idea of  my own death was difficult until I realized that worrying about death was only wasting the precious moments that I do have.  

Personally, after I accepted that death is just like non being alive, I had a harder time dealing with the idea of those I love dying than my own death.  The grieving process for a non-believer is different than for those who think they'll be able to see their loved ones again.  Having to hear religious people tell you your loved one "is in a better place" makes it even worse.  Their good intentions are accidentally more hurtful than not saying anything.  I'm going to see if I can find some video of a talk I recently went to that centered on freethinkers and grieving; if I can find it I will post in in this thread.

As for plants; well, in the grand scheme of things there is no reason to view plants as any more important than humans.  Maybe the argument could be made that because we are one of the few organisms on Earth who is aware of our own existance that we are important.  However, it really depends on one's standards for how you define important...all life is special in its own way.  I guess you could look at it this way; plants don't know they exist and, as far as I know, they don't feel pain.  So, you aren't hurting a plant by eating it.  If you feel this way about plants I am guessing you are probably a vegetarian.  It's a little more difficult to discuss the treatment of other animals for food since they do have feeling and can feel pain.  I don't think I have a quick answer related to ethics and other animals as food.

Anyway, I hope what I have said helps you sort some things out and am sure others will have some very insightful things to say.

edit: here's the talk I mentioned above:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ntcofpod ... p_jQ-2my4/
Just scroll down the page a bit. Alternatively you can dl it:  http://www.churchoffreethought.org/down ... -and-grief

They have more at http://www.churchoffreethought.org/serv ... 8af85f16be
just look to the left of the page for a playlist under the title "podcast feed"

[Janie1991]

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[Ihateyoumike]

In looking at it this way, I have found that the only thing that scares me about death is the dying part.

Looks like laetusatheos took the words right out of my mouth (or, straight from my fingertips, since I'm typing?)

I'm not afraid of death. I'm only afraid of how I'm going to die. Certainly I would prefer to go in my sleep, or completely painlessly, but what worries me is I can't guarantee that. Well, not unless I took my own life, or was doctor-assisted, which neither of those is something I see myself having any reason to do anytime in the foreseeable future.

[leftyguitarjoe]

I like to look at death like Mark Twain did: "I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." :banna:  

[VanReal]

The fact that I am going to die, and cease to exist, is what makes life so important to me.  I am here for a limited amount of time and I try to spend that time learning and loving.  It is actually kind of liberating if you really think about it because knowing that this "is it" allows us to make decisions based on only going around once rather than believing we have to live by a certain set of rules in order to do it again or continue on after this life.  So for my life, the fact that I will die makes everything so much more precious and important to me.  

I still have the same sad and selfish fear and sadness about losing a parent, sibling or child though.  That's a little harder to overcome.  Although I don't worry about what happens to them after death, I don't want to be without them and that's because they are such an important part of my life.  I would rather go first for sure, unfortunately it happens when it happens, and I have to think when it does I will be okay.  I try to make sure I enjoy their company and spend as much energy enjoying life with them as I spend enjoying mine so there are no regrets later when they are gone.

[curiosityandthecat]

So many people around me have died that I'm kind of numb to it. I get a phone call, "So-and-so died this weekend." "Oh, really? Okay. Do I have to be a pall bearer?" And that's about the extent of it.

As for myself dying, I'd rather avoid it. It's selfish, mostly: I enjoy live and want to enjoy it as much as I can before it ends.

[SSY]

I used to be terrified of death, I imagined it as a world without sensory input, which I am sure you can imagine, would be torture I would have to endure for eternity.

My views matured somewhat, and I realised, in a way I have already experienced death. Death will be like before you were born, so no sensory input, no comprehension either though. This will not be torture, as you wont be able to experience bordom, or anything else. It will litterally be nothing, even cogito will cease to apply. The best you can do is pack in as much life as possible before hand and go out BIG.

The idea of jumping off a building has always appealed to me, ending it on my own terms and having the ultimate rush before hand. The only thing that would prevent me from doing that would be the poor person who had to clear me up, and my organs being useless for the use of others.

[gwyn428]

Dear Lese91


It is pretty reasonable that there is nothing to actually experience when you finally die. Religious people believe that we are actually spirit souls who dwell inside our bodies and control them. If that's true, then how come paraplegics cannot walk? As human beings, we are able to be very observant of ourselves. We can touch our physical bodies, we can feel our emotions, we can experience our intellect, but for some reason we just can't detect an immortal spirit soul.

Never forget what heaven and hell really are. Heaven is just another English word for "sky." Look up and you won't see supernatural beings. Hell was originally Hel, the Nordic underworld, which only existed to ancient Teutonic peoples. And never believe someone who says that you'll be reincarnated; these same people have sacred texts which also mention realms for our ancestors and for ghosts.

Don't worry about death, focus on the here and now; life.

Find meaning in your relationships with other beings, humans and animals.

Love your significant other(s) and don't ignore them.

Learn something interesting everyday about the world, people, things, history, etc.

Do something that atleast two people will admire.

Listen to your favorite music and lose yourself in its beauty.

Write, if you have the skill, and leave your creations for the world to read.

Draw, paint, mold, if you have the skill, and leave your art for the world to see.

Sing or play an instrument, if you have the skill, and leave your work for the world to hear.

Enjoy good foods, drinks, movies, plays, concerts, and making goofy poses for the camera.

Take in the wonderful fragrances of scented candles, incense, flowers, perfumes, etc.

Most importantly, let people make you laugh, make them laugh, and never discard humor.

When it's time to pass away, don't worry, you will not have to worry about anything ever again. It'll be like going to your nice comfy bed after staying up for such a long time doing so much. But this time you'll get all the sleep you need and there won't be any bills to pay the next morning.


I hope that I have been a help.  

[Kyuuketsuki]

Yes I do (fear death) ... I don't so much fear the process of dying but I fear not being.

Kyu

[Squid]

Student: So Master, is the soul immortal or not? Do we survive our bodily death or do we get annihilated? Do we really reincarnate? Does our soul split up into component parts which get recycled, or do we as a single unit enter the body of a biological organism? And do we retain our memories or not? Or is the doctrine of reincarnation false? Is perhaps the Christian notion of survival more correct?  And if so, do we get bodily resurrected, or does our soul enter a purely Platonic spiritual realm?

Zen Master: Your breakfast is getting cold.