Are Blacks & Whites TRULY equal?

[chuff]

I don't know where to start in this thread, from what i read ( i did not read every post) it seems that there are more than a few misunderstanding, and i did not see any self-identified "Black" or "African American" person responding.

So as an Black person i will.....

I understand the resentment that many white people have to programs like affirmative action ect.

And i have heard of people not exactly liking the fact that Black people have College Funds, NAACP, Black Caucus in congress, BET (Black Entertainment Television), Black Magazines Ect.

The Basic reason for this is Black people had to create their Own Music channels, Magazines, Ect. because they were not welcome in others. They were not accepted as a part of Mainstream American culture so they developed their own subculture.
Though many of there Prejudices have disappeared I don't (and most Black people) feel that there is no reason to throw away the creative outlets this culture created after being excluded for so long.

As for Programs and Organization that were created to help Black People, they are not all still Relevant (the fact that NAACP has colored in it still makes me wonder) and i think the Congressional Black Caucus is Irrelevant, and other entities may become irrelevant as time goes on, but as the Minority in any Democratic Country Blacks will need people looking out to make sure the Majority does not impose unfair or undue rules or practices. YES we have a Black President in a few days, but White Men still hold the majority of the power.

The sentiment I consistently feel from those black people who are resentful of "the 'White Man' holding the majority of the power" is that they are in favor of a racial overthrow of power in the US.

It is as though they will only be satisfied once every person of influence in the whole of the United States is a person of color (because even if all of the Senate and all of Congress and the President were all blacks, they would complain that the VP is White [or has some white in him])...

This is quite obvious in the fact that they are never assuaged by the already immense power of their influence in media and politics. As a special interest group they have remarkable say-so in how things are conducted that have anything to do with race (even with races that are not their own).

What will satisfy the black subculture we talk about, or as more radical black "liberationists" would say, the black nation? Is that what they want? A black nation? A nation of blacks?

They refuse to be content until the whole of the power-caste is made up of blacks. And this precisely mirrors the National Socialist platform, replacing white with black.

For a group of people who believe that race is not a dividing line among people groups, it's amazing that they are resentful that members of another group they don't believe in hold power over their own. If there is no race distinction, what are you upset about? Ardent White racists (with some very rare exceptions) just don't get elected in the modern day.

The blacks who fight for affirmative action and extra benefits based on race are the same who convey a desire for a black nation, i.e., a nation of their own, which they govern, they institute, and (we should hope) they keep alive and well.

Hearkening back to my earlier days, I would have quickly said to let them have it, and let us have our own.

[keith2004]

I don't know where to start in this thread, from what i read ( i did not read every post) it seems that there are more than a few misunderstanding, and i did not see any self-identified "Black" or "African American" person responding.

So as an Black person i will..... :eek:    WOW

well i dont feel that way and i have alot of Black friends, non of them feel that way....i dont know which fringe Morons you spoke to, but please understand that the Majority of us dont feel that way.....i was on the Mall today with 3 Million others for the inauguration....and trust me that is not the Vibe, people are content, No one is trying to take over anything....

[flickroon]

Aside from the fact that I think not only America but also other countries in the world have shown tremendous growth and evolving, and it is 2009 after all, I don't feel that black and white people are truly equal. And there are more reasons than one to why that is.

Saving you the slavery and apartheid speech, I can't - and no one should - deny that black people have had more to suffer in two generations than other races in twenty. Even though that is not relevant in today's culture anymore, the repercussions of it still live on in many people's hearts and minds. As little as fifty years ago, when - I think - most of our parents where already born, people where taking their white children out of a school because an African-American mother had wanted a better education for her six-year-old daughter. That child is still alive today; she is a 54-year-old woman now. And she still thinks about the fact that she almost didn't get the chance to sit in a classroom and be taught. And she tells her children and grandchildren about it,v and they learn.

The differences between black and white people haven't gone because they are no longer physically present; they are very much alive today, as the elderly tell their children about the things they didn't have and the newer generations should be grateful for. Blacks and whites are equal in their rights, but they may not be so equal that they can blend in with each other without people seeing their different histories.

Regarding the n-word. I was raised a white child, but born to a white mother and a black father. Whenever people say that word, or any other ethnic slur, I get very frustrated. I find that white people often think that they're not allowed to say the n-word, while other ethnic groups can do whatever they want. Let me shed the light differently so that you may hopefully find some peace about the subject: whether people say the 'n word', or any other demeaning noun regarding Indians, Jews, the Chinese, African, Germans, the French, Canadians, Muslims or whatever group that someone may feel unfamiliar with, it is WRONG. And when you hear an African-American say the 'n word' to a friend or relative, it is STILL WRONG. These things are formed by certain horrible moments in history (it doesn't come from rap videos, it comes from the time when slaves where hung from trees) and are carried on by those who use it, regardless of their background.

Without not practicing what I preach; you don't see Muslim women who dress in certain religious and / or cultural ways go out calling each other 'fucking penguin' or  'dumb Arab' (which I DON'T think they are, but I frequently hear people say that around me). The definition of the n-word was very much altered by our modern music culture. Instead of the correct spelling, the now slang version 'niggah' is perfectly fine. Well, I don't think it is, and many people agree with me.

So, if you are white and you feel bothered by African-Americans call each other the 'n word', think about the fact that out of the approximate 13 percent of African-Americans in the United States, there are thousands and thousands of them who are embarrassed by the fact that their own people are still keeping up the racial differences and bigotry, and are not putting a stop to what many people fought for.

You can't say the n word, but they can't either.

[curiosityandthecat]

And when you hear an African-American say the 'n word' to a friend or relative, it is STILL WRONG.

I've always been told (by Black folk who use the word) that it's just a way of reclaiming a concept, taking it away from those with the power. Much the same way lesbians have claimed "dike" or gays have claimed "queer" or, just for fun, the way we use "heathen" or "heretic." The best way to change peoples' thoughts is to change peoples' language: we think in language.

[flickroon]

I've always been told (by Black folk who use the word) that it's just a way of reclaiming a concept, taking it away from those with the power.

I am part African and a lesbian, and if there are two groups who endure both internal and external name calling all the time, I've hit the jackpot. And I have nothing to say to black people who call me 'niggah' or anything like that, or to lesbians who call me 'dyke' or 'queer'. I am more than those two things, and nobody should have to face being looked upon as only a homosexual or only an Indian or only a Jew.

I feel that if you allow yourself and members of your group to use ethnic, cultural or sexual slurs to address to them (which many people - even inside the group - find very offensive), then you should also allow other groups to do the same. I don't see it fit or possible that you can call out the n-word to a friend in the streets while a group of white people walks by, and then go "Hey, look, I can say it but you better be damn sure you can't".

What that message really says is: "We want equality, but we feel like we can't get it. And why can't we get it? Because by using this word, we still keep certain aspects of the bigotry and discrimination alive that has tortured us for generations, and we don't allow for that horrid moment in history to rest in peace."

[karadan]

And when you hear an African-American say the 'n word' to a friend or relative, it is STILL WRONG.

I've always been told (by Black folk who use the word) that it's just a way of reclaiming a concept, taking it away from those with the power. Much the same way lesbians have claimed "dike" or gays have claimed "queer" or, just for fun, the way we use "heathen" or "heretic." The best way to change peoples' thoughts is to change peoples' language: we think in language.

That is exactly why phrases like "Fo' shizzer my nizzer" are used. As soon as white people start using it, the phrasiology has to be amended.

[SSY]

South Park, the greatest social commentary since Shakespear.

Mr. Garrison: Chef, what did you do when white people stole your culture?
Chef: Oh, well, we black people just always tried to stay out in front of them.
Mr. Slave: How did you do that?
Chef: Well, like with our slang. Black people always used to say, "I'm in the house" instead of "I'm here." But then white people all started to say "in the house" so we switched it to "in the hizzouse." Hizzouse became hizzizzouse, and then white folk started saying that, and we had to change it to hizzie, then "in the hizzle" which we had to change to "hizzle fo **** and now, because white people say "hizzle fo **** we have to say "flippity floppity floo."
Mr. Garrison: We don't have time for all that, Chef! Oh, if only those Queer Eye For the Straight Guy people understood what they were doing. Wait. That's it! I know exactly what to do! Come on, Mr. Slave! Let's get back to our flippity floppity floo.
Chef: Oh no! Dammit! Don't call it that!

I agree about racist slurs by the way, if it's racist, it's racist, you can't selectivley choose who can use what words.

[karadan]

South Park, the greatest social commentary since Shakespear.

Mr. Garrison: Chef, what did you do when white people stole your culture?
Chef: Oh, well, we black people just always tried to stay out in front of them.
Mr. Slave: How did you do that?
Chef: Well, like with our slang. Black people always used to say, "I'm in the house" instead of "I'm here." But then white people all started to say "in the house" so we switched it to "in the hizzouse." Hizzouse became hizzizzouse, and then white folk started saying that, and we had to change it to hizzie, then "in the hizzle" which we had to change to "hizzle fo **** and now, because white people say "hizzle fo **** we have to say "flippity floppity floo."
Mr. Garrison: We don't have time for all that, Chef! Oh, if only those Queer Eye For the Straight Guy people understood what they were doing. Wait. That's it! I know exactly what to do! Come on, Mr. Slave! Let's get back to our flippity floppity floo.
Chef: Oh no! Dammit! Don't call it that!

I agree about racist slurs by the way, if it's racist, it's racist, you can't selectivley choose who can use what words.

Haha!
Matt and Trey deserve medals.

[AnnaM]

No two human beings have ever been 'equal' in any meaningful way, though occasionally they are similar in one way or another.
Equality, like all idealist delusions, is a mug's game: it does no one any good, and it doesn't make a bit of sense.

PS: 'Races' are also imaginary.

[G.ENIGMA]

It all depends on whether they (black or white) are rich or poor, in a position of power or not  in position of power, where they live and where they dont live, what schools they go to and what schools they don't go to.

In the last century things have changed dramatically for both poor white people and poor black people, which I believe has been because of the breakdown of the class system (which is the real enemy :blink:

[Taavi]

Races are not equal ,if we watch the IQ.
Average IQ of:
Asian is 110
White is 100
Black 75 - Doesn't matter if he/she is living in U.S or Africa.

I'm not racist,It's just racist fact.

[SSY]

This going to get messy, real fast.

I would point out your sources by the way, it's always a nice thing to do, even more important in such a charged discussion as this one.

The most notable example of this type of thing in recent times, is the publishing of "The Bell Curve" which includes some material about intelligence and race. Like anything that might suggest such a link, the book has been attacked in pretty much every way imaginable. The topic seems to really incite people to rail against it, unfortunatley, most of the people criticising it come witht he midset of " The book must be wrong, I must disprove it in some way", which is rarely conducive to scientific debate.

[Hitsumei]

Attempting to generalize normative statistics of any given demographic to all of the individuals in an attempt to justify assertions of inequality is wrong headed, and foolish. All because a normative general assessment (although IQ is a terrible one -- it is highly criticized as inaccurate, culturally biased, and largely meaningless, because the number can various by such a large degree depending on who's IQ exam you take) established that the average of some demographic is lower than another does not imply that there are no members of the lower demographic that are superior in that regard to members in the demographic with a higher over all average -- so it hardly justifies saying that the entire demographic is inferior in that regard.

Given that the statistics of IQs fails to take into account relevant variables that we know to effect results -- one being that on average Asian people are better educated than white people, and have a general better educational system, and white people are generally better educated than black people -- which is well known to affect the results, and is a factor that is wholly unrelated to their race -- after tallied it is largely meaningless.

All this aside however it is irrelevant. Social equality, or equity under the law, does not imply equality of ability, intelligence, sexual appeal, height, weight, health, speed, strength, or any other measurement one wants to go by. Of course no one is perfectly equal with regard to such standards. Equality under the law means equal rights, and equal social, and moral consideration, not equal physical or metal ability.

Favoring intelligence, strength, speed, beauty or any other standard one wants to judge people at is arbitrary. There is no rational reason to favor one thing over others, and which traits are most preferable is simply a matter of opinion. If you want to judge equity by such standards, then you might as well just judge by skin colour, or gender. At least they are more practical, and more easily determined.

If you want to judge "equality" by ability for whatever reason, then do it on an individual basis. Generalizing across demographics already assumes that whatever statistical significant figure you may come up with is attributable to them by virtue of being members of that demographic, without first actually linking it with evidence to the specific trait that links the demographic, and discounting any other possible explanations, or that it is mere correlation. This is highly unscientific.

It is also simply unfair. You could be a member of a demographic in the high end of the statistics, and personally be a great deal superior than the average of all other demographics, but still be painted as inferior with the same wide brush -- simply by virtue of being a member of a demographic with a low over all average.

[McQ]

Races are not equal ,if we watch the IQ.
Average IQ of:
Asian is 110
White is 100
Black 75 - Doesn't matter if he/she is living in U.S or Africa.

I'm not racist,It's just racist fact.

Yeah, this could get ugly, especially since this was posted without any context or without an introduction. Additionally, if you post statistics, post the reference source, please. I would like for you to get off on the right foot here, Taavi. Thank you.

Folks, please do not immediately flame him/her (no one has done so yet, just asking that no one does). Let's understand first. A reminder has been given, so let's relax a bit, please.  

[curiosityandthecat]

Folks, please do not immediately flame him/her (no one has done so yet, just asking that no one does). Let's understand first. A reminder has been given, so let's relax a bit, please.