How is rape harmful?

[Wraitchel]

While rationally I understand how rape can be a damaging act to the female psyche, I can't help but feel a cold arrogance towards the victim-like mentality that these women go through. I find it hard to empathize or sympathize with these women have been damaged by rape, and as much as I try not to, still sometimes roll my eyes in exasperation.

I am shocked by how much the woman feels she has to go on feeling sorry for herself or continue berating herself for something that, rationally, can be explained quite easily. The man was either hard up but otherwise amorous, or was simply a loser trying to take out his frustrations of having no power on someone he percieves as weaker than him. In fact, it strikes me as strange that the woman doesn't strike back by twisting the man's fear of having no one: "So, you can't get any girls? Oh, poor baby, is that cause your dick is so small? You're not a real man. It's a good thing I'm a lesbian...ect"

And then there's the 15-year long trauma period. That just reeks of low self-esteem. I try to sympathize, of course. If I know a woman who's been raped, I rationally can understand where she's coming from, but after a week of listening to her self-loathing, honestly wish that she'd see herself not as a victim, but as the wonderful, beautiful, sexy proud woman she deserves to be.

Dude, I can appreciate your honesty, I suppose, but I think your head is up your ass. In another post, you admitted to having sympathy for the pedophiles. I'm guessing you can get inside the rapist's mentality, too, more easily than you can get into a victim's head. Perhaps you have been a victim, yourself, but can't begin to face the reality of that. Perhaps you have victimized others and cannot afford to feel sympathy. I would strongly suggest that you not pretend to have sympathy when you don't. In the long run, it is unkind to the woman you are fooling into trusting you with her vulnerability. I have been with men like you, and it did me no good. It's not like people enjoy being victimized and then taking years to heal from it. Healing takes time and the support of trustworthy people. That ain't you.

[McQ]

Wraitchel, I finally got to this thread and find it impressive and disturbing. However, I don't mean "disturbing" as though it doesn't belong here, but as an eye opening and needed topic. It's one of the topics that gets discussed too little. I find it impressive that you and others who have been raped can discuss it openly. Kudos for bringing it up and putting it here for us to talk about.

To answer your initial questions: No, never raped anyone, and No, never been raped. I have been in the subordinate position in a case of sexual harassment though. Though it's clearly not the same as physically being raped, it is an extremely helpless feeling. It was unusual that it was done to me (a guy) by a woman. She was a senior military officer and just wasn't going to take no for an answer from a lowly Second Lieutenant. It occurred over a period of three months while I was basically trapped, being on a small post in Honduras, away from home and friends and support. Long story short, I did NOT cave to her, and made it out ok, but it was traumatic at the time.

As for you and other rape victims, it is one of the few totally dehumanizing acts that one person can commit on another. You lose your sense of self. At 15, there is NO WAY you should be blamed for this. I'm sorry if others do not agree, but a 15 year old, in most cases, just doesn't have the ability to make consistent, adult decisions, and in your case, it cost you. But the BLAME for this is not on your 15 year old brain. It lies with the person who took advantage of you and the situation. I think it's bullshit to say otherwise. Even if you had some thoughts about what might happen ahead of time, the responsibility for the act of rape lies with the one who commits it. He is the person who took the advantage of your insecurities and vulnerability.

In the case of a teen raping a teen, it is full of gray areas, but I still don't see how the act of forcing you into sex in any way can be your "fault". Maybe the other teen didn't have the full, rational capabilities of a seasoned adult, but the fact is that he still perpetrated the act.

We've had some unfortunate cases, recently, in my town, of two different male high school teachers having sex with female students. In both cases, the teachers had direct supervisory and/or teaching responsibilities over the girls. One was also a coach, and the other was also a band director. In both cases, the sex was "consensual". I put " around the word, because I think that "consent" was given by the girls because these adult men (both around thirty years old (oh yeah, and MARRIED with young kids) manipulated them. They were looked up to by the girls, they were in positions of leadership over the girls, and they fully used that to their advantage. In my opinion, what they did falls under the same category as the dehumanizing rape of a person. It takes away the victim's ability to choose of her own free will.

What was sad in the cases here is that so many people wanted to blame the girls for it. How? One girl was barely 16 when the "affair" started, and the other was 16. Both went on for two years before being discovered. That is just sickening.

I'll get off the soap box now and give it back to you. I hope you get some good discussion out of this thread, and maybe spread some wisdom around on this.

[thirteen31]

Wraitchel, I finally got to this thread and find it impressive and disturbing. However, I don't mean "disturbing" as though it doesn't belong here, but as an eye opening and needed topic. It's one of the topics that gets discussed too little. I find it impressive that you and others who have been raped can discuss it openly. Kudos for bringing it up and putting it here for us to talk about.

I agree, it takes a lot of courage to come forward and talk about painful experiences. I have experienced several traumatic experiences similar to those who have posted earlier. Rape is always harmful and destructive. I can relate to the roller coaster of emotions that follow when something was taken from you. Rape is invasive whether it be sexual, physical or emotional. When something is taken from you beyond your will, it is rape and there is nothing more dehumanizing than discovering that all the strengths you had just isn't enough when it can be taken away from you so easily. My attacker has been released from his prison, but I am still trying to escape mine and sometimes I'm not sure if I have any strength to keep trying. Rape harmful? Oh, yes.

[Wechtlein Uns]

While rationally I understand how rape can be a damaging act to the female psyche, I can't help but feel a cold arrogance towards the victim-like mentality that these women go through. I find it hard to empathize or sympathize with these women have been damaged by rape, and as much as I try not to, still sometimes roll my eyes in exasperation.

I am shocked by how much the woman feels she has to go on feeling sorry for herself or continue berating herself for something that, rationally, can be explained quite easily. The man was either hard up but otherwise amorous, or was simply a loser trying to take out his frustrations of having no power on someone he percieves as weaker than him. In fact, it strikes me as strange that the woman doesn't strike back by twisting the man's fear of having no one: "So, you can't get any girls? Oh, poor baby, is that cause your dick is so small? You're not a real man. It's a good thing I'm a lesbian...ect"

And then there's the 15-year long trauma period. That just reeks of low self-esteem. I try to sympathize, of course. If I know a woman who's been raped, I rationally can understand where she's coming from, but after a week of listening to her self-loathing, honestly wish that she'd see herself not as a victim, but as the wonderful, beautiful, sexy proud woman she deserves to be.

Dude, I can appreciate your honesty, I suppose, but I think your head is up your ass. In another post, you admitted to having sympathy for the pedophiles. I'm guessing you can get inside the rapist's mentality, too, more easily than you can get into a victim's head. Perhaps you have been a victim, yourself, but can't begin to face the reality of that. Perhaps you have victimized others and cannot afford to feel sympathy. I would strongly suggest that you not pretend to have sympathy when you don't. In the long run, it is unkind to the woman you are fooling into trusting you with her vulnerability. I have been with men like you, and it did me no good. It's not like people enjoy being victimized and then taking years to heal from it. Healing takes time and the support of trustworthy people. That ain't you.

Garbage. Utter garbage. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I was writing that. Yes, I DO feel sympathy for women as victims, but, and this is why I wrote that garbage in the previous post, I used to take pride in having unfeeling arrogance, as well as a cold, brutal voice. I'm still trying to shake it off. Sometimes I still say things that are intentionally calculated to invoke cold arrogance when I've had a bad day.

In reality, you are completely way off when you say you've been with men like me. That much I know. I'm nothing like the man my diction leads you to be, but therein lies my talents. Because, as you shall soon see, I can manipulate the written word to a very high level, subconciously affecting myself and others online depending upon what I am feeling at the very moment.

Believe me, I understand to the fullest that you shouldn't trust fully anybody on the internet, nor what you read on it, for that matter.
But for what it's worth, I try to be as honest as I can on this forum, even if I am a little "sensitive" to my moods.

[Wechtlein Uns]

Wraitchel, I finally got to this thread and find it impressive and disturbing. However, I don't mean "disturbing" as though it doesn't belong here, but as an eye opening and needed topic. It's one of the topics that gets discussed too little. I find it impressive that you and others who have been raped can discuss it openly. Kudos for bringing it up and putting it here for us to talk about.

I agree, it takes a lot of courage to come forward and talk about painful experiences. I have experienced several traumatic experiences similar to those who have posted earlier. Rape is always harmful and destructive. I can relate to the roller coaster of emotions that follow when something was taken from you. Rape is invasive whether it be sexual, physical or emotional. When something is taken from you beyond your will, it is rape and there is nothing more dehumanizing than discovering that all the strengths you had just isn't enough when it can be taken away from you so easily. My attacker has been released from his prison, but I am still trying to escape mine and sometimes I'm not sure if I have any strength to keep trying. Rape harmful? Oh, yes.

*sigh*... yeah. You are absolutely right.
I can't imagine--no, I mean to say...

When I was talking about the pedophile thing, I remember typing that little kids shouldn't be forced into sex because they are not interested in it. If a woman, or a man, or anyone, is not interested in sex at a given moment in time, they should not be forced into it. And, I hate admitting it, but I should know that better than anyone.

Given that, however, I think I can understand my unfeeling reaction to rape. It's not because I don't care, or because I'm cold and arrogant, but because I'm so far removed from the situation that...well, I think If I get closer to the situation--yes. I think I've learned a little something about myself now. Sometimes I reminisce about being cold and arrogant...

[Wraitchel]

Sorry I came out with my guns a blazing, Wechtlein. This is a sensitive topic, and I was insensitive. I have become a bit of a shrew in my middle age, and I hate it.

[Sophus]

Dude, I can appreciate your honesty, I suppose, but I think your head is up your ass. In another post, you admitted to having sympathy for the pedophiles. I'm guessing you can get inside the rapist's mentality, too, more easily than you can get into a victim's head. Perhaps you have been a victim, yourself, but can't begin to face the reality of that. Perhaps you have victimized others and cannot afford to feel sympathy. I would strongly suggest that you not pretend to have sympathy when you don't. In the long run, it is unkind to the woman you are fooling into trusting you with her vulnerability. I have been with men like you, and it did me no good. It's not like people enjoy being victimized and then taking years to heal from it. Healing takes time and the support of trustworthy people. That ain't you.

I tend to agree with Wetchlein slightly. If I, as a man, had a pitty party for however many times I had been raped (hypothetically) I think the majority of people would be telling me the same thing.

I too have a small dose of what you may call sympathy for pedophiles. Under the presumption you are heterosexual let's think of it this way: Society says for man and woman to have sex is as shameful and illegal as it is for an adult with a child is in the real world. Not that you would neceessrily resort to raping a man but nothing would stop you from lusting. Most likely there are many "would-be" pedophiles in the world. However they choose to do the noble thing and deny themselves the sexual satisfaction that society permits you.

[spartacus]

logic dictates that it must be harmful, but how can any man properly empathise with a rape victim unless he himself has been raped.

[thirteen31]

logic dictates that it must be harmful, but how can any man properly empathise with a rape victim unless he himself has been raped.

You don't have to experience the event to empathize. It would be like attending a funeral without knowing the deceased - you wouldn't go there to laugh, would you? No, you would empathize with the family.

[Wechtlein Uns]

No, I should be the one apologizing wraitchel. In truth, I was having a bit of a bad day when I wrote that. still, that's no excuse for me to say that. I am sorry.  

[Dragon_Of_Heavon]

I'd love to discuss what you all really think of rape. Have you ever convinced someone to have sex with you who really didn't want to? Was it rape? Have you been raped or had sex when you didn't really want to? How does sex harm the victim? When is it the victim's fault, and does that condition nullify the harm or the culpability for the harm?

I have had a few friends who have been raped one 3 years ago while she was at college the dorm room it happened in was not 300 feet from my own. Personally I despise rapists, hell even cold blooded murders and serial killers hate rapists. As far as society goes it is the lowest of the low. I feel deep seated compassion for the victim loathing and abject hatred for the rapist. I have never convinced someone to have sex with me against their will though i have had the chance to do so. I believe it to be wrong to have sex with a drunken girl as well. I would not consider this rape but I do consider it taking advantage which is almost as bad. That said I feel more compassion for women than I do for men in general. If the man is drunk and the woman is not I see nothing wrong with it. (is that a contradiction, I wonder? I think that a person should always go into sex with their eyes as well as their ears wide open. If nothing else the NO! rule applies. If a person woman or man says no they mean it. Even when laughing it is important to stop. No means no people, there is no question there.

Sex with an unwilling partner can be very destructive to both parties. The to the rapist it is destructive to their obligations toward society and perhaps more importantly corrosive to the dignity of their humanity as a hole. (that said let them rot they are less than human in my eyes) The victim it is potentially physically destructive, certainly invasive of their human dignity and mentally scaring. From what I have been told it can make even the darkest alleys even darker.

It is never the victims fault. Can the victim be faulted for her specific actions of course. As an example a girl who gets drunk with a group of men of bad reputation can be held accountable for her negligence toward her own well being. A woman who dresses immodestly and walks into a bar full of bikers who she knows will leer, can be held accountable for her stupidity. In neither case could the woman ever be judged as accountable or at fault being raped. Even when a person has given complete consent to sex, the second they say no it is done, over and any more of an advance should be considered a violation. Their own accountability for their stupidity or negligence is never an excuse or a nullification of the rapists culpability. That said there are many cases where the woman is in no way accountable. An example being a woman walking down the street gets dragged into the back of a van and raped. she is in no way culpable or even accountable for anything. A woman being taken advantage of by a trusted coworker and raped is another example of a woman who is not accountable for any wrong. That is what I believe. And just so I do not appear sexist a man can be raped too it is just less likely. An example of a man would be a young college guy gets dragged into the back of a van and force fed Viagra and made into a sex slave. (though rare this has actually occurred.) Lets also not forget Catholic priests and their acolytes or confessionals. Or prison for another example.

[Janie1991]

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[thirteen31]

This will probably sound terrible, but why does it affect victims so much? I am a 17 year old female, but I don't understand how it is so emotionally destructive. I do think no one should ever be able to do anything to you without your permission, but why exactly does this certain forced act make people so upset?

Rape is the invasion of body and mind and it is a violation of basic human rights. When you state, 'make people so upset' are you referring to certain emotional responses that one could have after the rape? An emotional response is natural, to hide from those responses are not. Not everyone will be affected the same, but it doesn't make it any less emotional. How we respond to trauma is directly affected by the coping skills that we have in place before. Oftentimes, it is the shame of 'letting' it affect us that prevents us from finding the right life skills to better buffer the stress that is associated with rape. To the victim, it is said too often to 'just get over it' and shame and guilt prevent them from getting help.

I think the worst part would be thinking that they were going to kill me, any physical pain that it actually caused, stds, and pregnancy. If you do not get an std or become pregnant, why does it affect people for so long? If it hurts, the pain goes away after a while, it is short-term.

It depends upon the individual - you can't put a specific time frame for healing.

I am not saying that rape is ok, but i just dont understand why it should cause such an uproar. I am not trying to attack you at all, but am only curious. I am a virgin and young, so maybe there is some secret thing that I don't understand that makes sex so terrible and harming if you don't want it. Yes, I would be mad if someone forced me to have sex, and it would be against my rights, but why is there a need to get so depressed about it? I am really not trying to sound mean or judgmental, so please forgive me if I do!

To better understanding this, you would need an understanding of your own coping skills. Regardless of being a virgin or being young, trauma and abuse has no age boundaries and perhaps you have a great foundation of coping skills and feel confident to work through the trauma with minimal 'uproar' in your life, but one shouldn't be judged on their reaction to the trauma. Sex is not terrible and one shouldn't be harmed emotionally or physically because of the act. Sex, in itself, is a form of communication, and when one is not consenting, it can and usually does instill fear.

[Kylyssa]

This will probably sound terrible, but why does it affect victims so much? I am a 17 year old female, but I don't understand how it is so emotionally destructive. I do think no one should ever be able to do anything to you without your permission, but why exactly does this certain forced act make people so upset? I think the worst part would be thinking that they were going to kill me, any physical pain that it actually caused, stds, and pregnancy. If you do not get an std or become pregnant, why does it affect people for so long? If it hurts, the pain goes away after a while, it is short-term. I am not saying that rape is ok, but i just dont understand why it should cause such an uproar. I am not trying to attack you at all, but am only curious. I am a virgin and young, so maybe there is some secret thing that I don't understand that makes sex so terrible and harming if you don't want it. Yes, I would be mad if someone forced me to have sex, and it would be against my rights, but why is there a need to get so depressed about it? I am really not trying to sound mean or judgmental, so please forgive me if I do!

But the pain doesn't always go away.  I have a plate in my head and I walk funny.  I have several visible physical scars to be sure I never forget, from the palm of my hand, to my forearm, to my breast, to my face, to the back of my head.   I've had seizures ever since (from the skull fracture) and every time I have one, I am reminded of why they happen.

I suspect that even if I didn't have all of these physical reminders, I'd still be reminded every time I was startled during sex or whenever a foolish lover decided to pin my wrists to the bed with his hands.

I direct you to a poem I wrote some time back to somewhat describe the emotions.  In it, I concentrated on the potency of the memories.

Inescapable

[thirteen31]

Kylyssa, I am sorry to hear what happened to you; your poem is excellent, well-written and gets right to the point. Thank you for sharing.