Protecting Marriage...

[wazzz]

i would say gay marriages is not that harm but where does Aids come from  ?

[jcm]

i would say gay marriages is not that harm but where does Aids come from  ?

huh?

[rlrose328]

i would say gay marriages is not that harm but where does Aids come from  ?

I was a trained AIDS support person in the 80s and as such, I attended many training sessions which included the history of the virus.  From what they told us then (and it may very well have changed with further research), the virus originated in Africa in wild animals (of the primate genus) to whom it did no damage.  It passed to humans when native hunters would kill and eat the organs of the animals (to obtain the characteristics of that animal).

The virus started mutating in humans at that point.  As the native lands were developed, they became workers in the hotels and spas that were being built.  At some that catered to alternative lifestyles, the workers fraternized with the guests.  The virus was brought to the USA by a male flight attendant who frequented the hotels there (Patient Zero) then spread the virus, unknowingly at first.  As it spread, it mutated to what we now know as the HIV virus.

It then spread to the IV drug community through shared needles and unprotected intercourse and to the hemophiliac community through tainted blood transfusions, the blood probably coming from the homeless and drug community through paid blood donations back before we knew to test the blood for viruses.

Now, white gay and bi males and black males are at the highest risk for contracting HIV due to unprotected sex and drug use.

Now... Dr. Alan Cantwell has published books on his theory that AIDS was a genocidal plot by the government to rid the US of gays using bioweapon researched viruses on gay men for study without their knowledge.  I think it sounds ridiculous.

This article from 1999 outlines the story I was told in the 80s and has actual scientific facts about chimps.

Finally, this wiki article states that the flight attendant Patient Zero story is inaccurate and was probably believed so widely due to a book called "And The Band Plays On" by Randy Shilts.  (I have have that book... great book.)

So... is that more than you ever wanted to know?  

[Moosader]

Ibecause we could call "blargh" a "union between one man and one woman" and "glargh" a "union between two men or two women".

I'm completely in favor of this.



My view on marriage is that any (two? haven't really thought through how I feel about more if it's not a matter of brainwashed women told that they're supposed to) human people should be able to get married, and be able to call it marriage.
I really don't get the people who are okay with Civil Unions but against Marriage.

[Asmodean]

I really don't get the people who are okay with Civil Unions but against Marriage.

Do you gets people who are pro Marriageâ,,¢ but against Civil Unions?   oO(You see, I find "Civil Union" quite stupid-sounding. In the purely sound-related way, that is, not meaning-wise)

[curiosityandthecat]

There's nothing civil about forcing gays to have civil unions.

Srsly.

[Moosader]

I really don't get the people who are okay with Civil Unions but against Marriage.

Do you gets people who are pro Marriageâ,,¢ but against Civil Unions?   oO(You see, I find "Civil Union" quite stupid-sounding. In the purely sound-related way, that is, not meaning-wise)

I understand that gay people give them the jibblies and therefore call them evil, so they shouldn't be allowed to sin or whateverblahblah, should be forced to be "saved" and turn straight. =P
(That's my interpretation, anyway).

I don't get what's with giving people the same thing as marriage (civil union) but not letting it be called marriage.

[Sophus]

The day will eventually come when the question of whether or not gays should have marriage rights will be socially identical to asking if women should have the right to vote. Or if African Americans should be enslaved. The Bible preached of slavery and the degrading of women but in spite of "God's Holy word" we accomplished tearing down barriers of long held, unquestioned beliefs, and slowly distributed rights to women and African Americans. Of course it took much longer than it should have but as each generation becomes open minded and aware of the ridiculous absurdity of their fathers disgusting beliefs, they do something to bring about change. Just look at how this generation is beginning to divide on this issue. And I dare say the younger generation rising up to take their place is even more open to the rights of homosexuals. Unfortunately it's going to take a little bit more time for the gays rights to become a moral axiom, but I would imagine our children will see it happen in their lifetime.

Today to say that women should not have the same privelages of a man is dubbed sexism. To claim that a man of another race is lower in status to you and is worthy of slavery is called racism. To all those who say your sexual orientation is superior to anothers and thus deserves better treatment, we will find a more vile; a more politically correct; a more suiting name than homophobes. And that shall be the title you will earn in history.

[Jolly Sapper]

In response to anyone who is thinking that civil unions are the same as marriages.

Here is one difference...

In Arkansas, Act 1 passed the recent vote.  This pretty much made it impossible for a non "married" couple to adopt or foster a child.  If I were to get a civil union with my wife, we wouldn't be able to adopt or foster a child.  If I and my wife were to co habitate without any attempt to get any type of legal contract recognized by the government, we would be barred from adopting or fostering a child.

Now this sucks, I've been faithful to the same woman for eight years (the last four living together and the four previous when I was in the military being bounced around the planet).  We've known each other since before high school.  So that's at least 12 years we've known each other.  We've been though a ton of shit together, more than a lot of "married" couples have.  I think we've paid our dues without having to be told we are somehow, lesser persons as a couple because we didn't sign a legal contract.

Now, it is possible that we can go to a courthouse and get the legal contract squared away, but that contract doesn't mean squat to either of us beyond other contractual tidbits it opens up (insurance, filing for taxes, automatic power of attorney, being able to see me if I'm ever hurt bad enough to be rushed to the emergency room, etc).

This who marriage issue seems to be a civil rights issue, I don't know of many gay couples who are trying to get married suing churches in an attempt to force the church to perform the ceremony.  I do hear about suing for the legal rights to be considered a "married" couple and be allowed the legal protections that are afforded by the legal contract of marriage.

[rlrose328]

Yup, you nailed it Jolly.  What I got by marrying my husband, gay couples must obtain a lawyer and file paperwork to get, and they can't even get ALL of what I have that way.  It's disgusting that the religious and anti-gay marriage folks can't SEE that.

I also find it ironic that the majority of the people who voted for Prop 8 are:  Latinos, Blacks and Mormons.  All of these groups have faced (and STILL face) significant discrimination from the American public at large.  You'd THINK they'd KNOW better.

[Jolly Sapper]

An addendum.  

While I have come to realize over the years that I don't care much for religions as a whole, there are some parts of the structure/system that I didn't have any problems with.  The concept of marriage was one of them.  Back in the days when marriage was about two people being true to each other, showing compassion toward each other, wanting to be there for the good time and the bad, the love and care and devotion that two people could show each other, and starting a family, I honestly thought that marriage was a pretty important institution.  I was perfectly willing to wait until I was damn sure I was with the right person before getting married to them so as to respect what seemed at the time a pretty decent tradition.

Its what I've been hearing over the last handful of years, that marriage is about procreation.  Marriage is only about penis and vagina.  All of that other happy hippy dippy crap (that had me convinced that a marriage was an important institution) wasn't important any more.  Of all the groups that would use a biological argument to defend their position, never would I have thought it would be the religiously minded.

[mauiweddings120]

its really a good discussion all through..thanks for posting it.

[Kylyssa]

It never fails to amuse me that people bring up the Bible in defense of discrimination against adult consensual relationships and then equate same sex adult consensual relationships with pedophilia and polygamy. I find this so amusing because the Bible speaks of and condones both pedophilia and polygamy with many of its primary characters practicing one or both. Perhaps the technical term for what is frequently practiced in the Bible, even by God, is hebephilia. Please recall that the Virgin Mary was a child by today’s standards, a child who really had no option to say no to her impregnation.

I don’t follow the word of the Bible which condemns homosexuality, the eating of shellfish, and the mixing of fibers in a fabric while condoning hebephilia, genocide, and slavery. I’m simply thunderstruck that such a book could be used as a moral absolute for anyone.

Shouldn’t we instead use the yardstick of compassion and harm? If something is the compassionate path and does no harm, how can it be wrong?

As a victim of sexual abuse I am outraged that anyone DARE equate something as beautiful and nurturing as a loving relationship between adults with pedophilia. There is NO love in pedophilia. I’m outraged that a person or a society would treat loving adult partners as equivalent to life-wrecking pedophiles. They discriminate against and demonize innocent, decent human beings.

Of all things in this world love is a thing we need to nurture and support rather than attack. I suspect one day, our children will look back and be sickened by our actions as we are sickened by miscegenation laws and segregation. I know I’m standing on the side of love and compassion, the side of no harm, so I have no fear of the future’s judgment.

[oldschooldoc]

This is an issue that I feel strongly about. No, I'm not gay, but I do know quite a few people who are. They are no different from straight people other than sexual preference. If they want to love each other, be married, adopt children (or get IVF), and live happily ever after, THEN FUCKING LET THEM! I am so sick of these religious nuts saying it will ruin the sanctity of marriage. Well, let us see here. As it stands, every legal marriage in the U.S. has about a 50% (actually slightly less I believe) chance of surviving.

So, we will allow two straight people (one man and one woman) to marry each other, no matter the circumstances. How long have they known each other? Are they sober (Vegas style)? Do they love each other?

Now, on the other hand we can have two loving adults who have been in a relationship for years, but, OH NO, they're gay.

WHO GIVES A FUCK!!! Leave them alone!!! It won't affect you, your family, or your dull, unhappy heterosexual marriage in any fucking way, so shut up!!!!!

P.S. Excuse my language above. Like I said, I feel strongly about this subject. This will be the next civil rights struggle, and it will turn out the same way. And our world will be better for it.

[JohnFureey]

Thank You very much that your thought is different from others. Protecting marriage is big matter now.Some country like Pakistan they are not keep their marriage for long term their rule is different.