Israeli-Hamas war

[billy rubin]

Why..? I think the simplest explanation is that Hamas construct their message out of their ass, which necessitates it being full of exactly what you would expect.

If it reads like propaganda, it probably is.

 the history is spot on, im afraid.

[The Magic Pudding..]

what i see is hamas rejecting the imposition of a state of israel upon ordinary residents of palestine, a last blow of the dying imperialist west upon a subject colony, performed to assuage their collective guilt over their persecution of the jews by forcing some other persecuted people to pay the price.

I could understand "the dying imperialist west" having sympathy for Jews, but why guilt?
Post WW2 those with the whip hand hadn't conducted the holocaust, they'd ended it.

centuries of european and asian persecution by everybody led to tbe holocaust being possible.

Or perhaps allowing the paltry words of pacifists to give sway?

[Asmodean]

the history is spot on, im afraid.

Remember that saying about devils quoting religious texts?

Well, that one contains a gem of wisdom amid the bullshit too, most appropriately.

Hamas presents a version of history that favours (or at least is meant to) Hamas. Any self-respecting propagandist can do as much.

[Tom62]

We should not be surprised if the Palestinians lie to us. It is just a mater of taqiyya and tawriya,

- taqiyya: the Muslim doctrine that allows lying in certain circumstances, primarily when Muslim minorities live under infidel authority.

- taweiya: a doctrine that allows lying in virtually all circumstances, including to fellow Muslims and by swearing to Allah, provided the liar is creative enough to articulate his deceit in a way that is true to him.

[Asmodean]

Or as Futurama put it,

"You are technically correct. The best kind of correct."

A statement can be true and tell "none" of the story, or present the wider picture from a very specific, narrow angle while being perfectly able to withstand any scrutiny of its factuality. Manipulative language... It has a certain aspect of art to it, to be honest.

[Asmodean]

From what I can see in local media, Hamas may be looking for a ceasefire in exchange for the hostages.

I wonder if a ceasefire is a good idea for Israel though - they do need to save the hostages or at least try, but can they afford giving Hamas any breathing room?

Difficult...

In other news, our parliament is discussing whether or not to recognise the state of Palestine. Initiated by the Communists, naturally enough, but I do hope that even they have the sense to see just what symbol they prop up with such symbol politics. For instance, could it be "if you commit a large enough act of terror, then you must be a nation?" I, for one, oppose the very notion, but then when a proposal is made, it has to be discussed and voted over.

[Icarus]

I interrupt the conversation with a question? .....................

Over a long period of time, the Jews have been persecuted and damned by societies all over the world. We have a sizable segment of our population, here in the US, that would have the Jews all transported across the sea. But the people across the sea are likely to reject them.

Why are Jews disliked by so many non Jews?

Disclaimer:  I am definitely not Jewish. My question has nothing to do with the current war in Israel.   

[Asmodean]

Hmm... I believe to have read or heard that it could have broadly the same roots as the dislike of gypsies. I think it boiled down to the settled disliking the nomad or some such, but I must admit that as reasons go, that one seems pretty hollow.

[Tom62]

I interrupt the conversation with a question? .....................

Over a long period of time, the Jews have been persecuted and damned by societies all over the world. We have a sizable segment of our population, here in the US, that would have the Jews all transported across the sea. But the people across the sea are likely to reject them.

Why are Jews disliked by so many non Jews?

Disclaimer:  I am definitely not Jewish. My question has nothing to do with the current war in Israel. 

The Jewish population is very diverse. You have very moderate Jews on one side and the extreme orthodox Jews on the other (and anything in between). Especially the orthodox Ashkenazi Jews are treated with a lot of distrust, because they have their own culture; their own beliefs, etc. They are also regarded as being very self-righteous and obnoxious.

[Asmodean]

Failure to integrate... That sounds far less hollow, actually.

[The Magic Pudding..]

There is a war of bombs and bullets and a war of propaganda being fought.
It seems unlikely Israel would take such a propaganda hit unless fighters are in/under hospitals.

Unless Hamas suckered them, pretending to be under the hospitals.

Devious

[The Magic Pudding..]

Why are Jews disliked by so many non Jews?

Success, prosperity.

I know I resent anyone more successful or prosperous than me.
What are they doing being above me, they should be below me, jabba jabba jabba jabba jabba jabba

[billy rubin]

There is a war of bombs and bullets and a war of propaganda being fought.
It seems unlikely Israel would take such a propaganda hit unless fighters are in/under hospitals.

Unless Hamas suckered them, pretending to be under the hospitals.

Devious

i am certain theyre under hospitals. hamas are cold blooded murderers, and digging under a hospital makes great tactical sense.

the israelis are hot blooded murderers and dont think things through as well as hamas.

both sides lie so much its hard to know the facts, but hamas has incriminated itself again and again

[Asmodean]

and dont think things through as well as hamas.

How so? There be terrorists under the hospital. You go in, do the proper blazing of guns and bursting-in-air of bombs and then - maybe no terrorists under the hospital?

It seems like the tool is suitable to the objective.

[Tank]

and dont think things through as well as hamas.

How so? There be terrorists under the hospital. You go in, do the proper blazing of guns and bursting-in-air of bombs and then - maybe no terrorists under the hospital?

It seems like the tool is suitable to the objective.

Given what Hamas did in the way of PR when one of their own rockets misfired into a hospital car park earlier Israel will not use the blunt force option on this hospital. Given Hamas have had years to prepare the alleged tunnel system under the hospital they will probably have riddled it with booby traps and kill traps. It's an Israeli death trap.