Split From News Thread: Putin Comment on Trump Prosecutions

[billy rubin]

the fact that trump watched his television set for three hours while people attacked poice and invaded tbe capital while waving flags with his name on tbem

. . . and did nothing . . .

in spite of specific pleas from his family, from his staff, and from members of congress

indicates to me that what was happening there met his approval.

the fact that he now calls them patriots and muses on their blanket pardons indicates to me that he continues to approve.

approval does not constitute incitement. but failing to act for three hours while tbe capital was ransacked in his name couples donald trump with them as a guilty participant.

osama bin laden didnt fly an airplane into any buildings. we consider him a participant anyway.

[Icarus]

^Thank you Rec for that honest rebuttal.

Individuals in other countries are not legitimately informed of the actual details of our politics. Nor, I fear, are we honestly informed about political realities in other countries.

 

That is a bold statement. The way I see it, TV networks in the States don't bring any objective news but propaganda. Either pro Trump and anti Biden or pro Biden and anti Trump. The quality standards of these "news shows" are also pretty low, because real news isn't presented as news but as info nuggets. In most cases facts are disregarded if it harmful to the narrative. It is better to keep people misinformed or not informed.

As an outsider we may therefore have a better understanding of US politics than most Americans who are only watching CNBC,  CNN or Fox News.

Fox, CNN, MSNBC are not the primary source of information for some of us. I agree that we are, as a nation, seriously fucked up with false, heavily partisan, or even narrow minded, or no minded at all, conspiratorial lying bullshit. I am pleased to claim that there are a few of us who actually vet our news and its sources.

[Recusant]

I came across some quotes yesterday that seemed apposite to me. From Jaques Ellul's book Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes:

Propaganda by its very nature is an enterprise for perverting the significance of events and of insinuating false intentions.

. . .

The propagandist will not accuse the enemy of just any misdeed. He will accuse him of the very intention that he himself has, and of trying to commit the very crime that he himself is about to commit.

. . .

The accusation aimed at the other's intention clearly reveals the intention of the accuser.

Though predictive rather than retrodictive, no less accurate. Putin is infamous for jailing and/or murdering his political opponents, and for his profound dishonesty. That does not mean that his accusation against Biden and the US political system is automatically wrong, but it does mean that it should be immediately suspect.

Merrick Garland, the US Attorney General, has been punctilious about keeping the Department of Justice clear of any influence from the Biden administration, yet he appointed a special counsel to add yet another degree of separation from the president. That special counsel has a history of prosecuting corruption by both Democratic and Republican politicians, and I'm unaware of any indication he's given that he's biased against Trump.

Regardless, the public record is full of evidence that Trump actually perpetrated all of the crimes of which he's been accused, not only in the cases the special counsel is prosecuting, but in Georgia and New York as well. The claim that he's being prosecuted for political reasons appears to be nothing more than special pleading.



ETA: You were right, Asmodean. This topic deserved to be split from Magic Pudding's thread.

[Asmodean]

I shall revisit for a long-form reply, as I think we are approaching if not the same one, then at least neighbouring pages.

There is a reason why I use the term "not-wrong" to delineate from being "right," or "correct." I suspect Putin of having a mirror-looking agenda in mind and while his conclusions in this are plausible and broadly align with my own, I think his way of arriving at them is of a self-serving variety.

[Icarus]

Gray one,Is it true that Norway is building a very long, very deep, tunnel under one of your waterways? Or is that a mere rumor?

The tunnel is to. be a transport facility.  It might make a suitable shelter if Putin goes off his nuclear rocker.

[jumbojak]

I have never seen an argument connecting Trump's actions with the capital riots that wasn't a looooong stretch. Like, stretched to the point that calling for protests would essentially be outlawed if it were followed uniformly. Whatever someone has against Trump - and I don't particularly like the guy - I would urge you to think very carefully about what you are suggesting if this is what you want to prosecute him for.

[Dark Lightning]

Did you not see it in real time? He's talking about walking up Pennsylvania Ave and doing the deed. You don't see it, that's on you. All those people went and did what he said to do, and were expecting him to be there...and he tried to get control of "The Beast" in order to do it. It would have been great to see him running around like the wrestling heel he is. Maybe he'd've gotten clubbed. And if you don't believe it, people are now not going to do his bidding after losing their trust after this incident. smh

[Recusant]

I have never seen an argument connecting Trump's actions with the capital riots that wasn't a looooong stretch. Like, stretched to the point that calling for protests would essentially be outlawed if it were followed uniformly. Whatever someone has against Trump - and I don't particularly like the guy - I would urge you to think very carefully about what you are suggesting if this is what you want to prosecute him for.

Agreed, there is no way he would serve time, regardless of his responsibility for what took place.

Why did those patriots storm the Capitol though? 

[Asmodean]

Gray one,Is it true that Norway is building a very long, very deep, tunnel under one of your waterways? Or is that a mere rumor?

The tunnel is to. be a transport facility.  It might make a suitable shelter if Putin goes off his nuclear rocker.

There is a planned new such tunnel. Older model exists, is "very" long, very steep and lorries tend to get brake fires in it. I drive that tunnel on my way to Southern Sweden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslofjord_Tunnel

We also have plenty of other road tunnels, what with being rather on the mountainous side. Oslo-area also has an underground metro. It's not very deep, but still at least as deep as ye-average bomb shelter. I think we have bomb shelters too, but no idea what condition those are in. There is also the "Opera tuinnel," which is like 40-45 meters at the deepest. It's a decently sized road tunnel for getting the main thoroughfares through Oslo (Mostly N-S, but with a component East as well) beneath the city, removing all the high-speed high-density traffic from the surface streets and avenues.

[EDIT] Come to think of it, you may also be thinking of some tunnel projects where today there are ferries. They ar ealso generally long, deep and going under the waterways. None with the exception of the above are in "my area" though - the majority of those projhects would be 5-6 hours drive from here at least.