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Political Correctness

Started by MarcusA, June 04, 2023, 06:26:39 AM

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The Magic Pudding.

Quote from: Recusant on June 07, 2023, 09:41:14 PM
Quote from: MarcusA on June 07, 2023, 07:11:34 PMRecusant, what about a game of Tug-of-War? In that sport, you tow a line.

Yes, and a mule tows a line on a barge.
A tugboat tows a line on a ship.

The idiom "toe the line" has to do with meeting expectation, and has as its possible origin runners in a race stepping to the line to begin the race. "Tow the line," though a common error, is not only incorrect it carries a different (if perhaps adjacent) connotation.


The mast is cracking as the waves are slapping
All toe the line and tow the line lest we sink

Asmodean

Quote from: Recusant on June 06, 2023, 08:49:18 PMI usually manage to suppress my inner  :pedant:  copy editor but sometimes succumb. Only human, not a god like some.   :grin:
It is only good and proper to :pedant: when your :pedant: is superior. :smilenod:
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

Quote from: The Magic Pudding. on June 07, 2023, 10:16:42 PM
Quote from: MarcusA on June 07, 2023, 07:18:14 PMAsmo, there is an element of fear to political correctness but self-censorship is self-betrayal.

I don't agree with this.
You can embrace your inner bastard or your inner ...angel.
I posit causing harm is bad, it is good to take reasonable steps to minimise harm.
I don't know everything about everything and everyone, so sometimes it is better to just shut the fek up.
I have biases, I don't accept my life's purpose must be to banish them absolutely, but don't think I should give them free reign either.

Well said.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

#18
Quote from: The Magic Pudding. on June 07, 2023, 10:16:42 PM
Quote from: MarcusA on June 07, 2023, 07:18:14 PMAsmo, there is an element of fear to political correctness but self-censorship is self-betrayal.

I don't agree with this.
You can embrace your inner bastard or your inner ...angel.
I posit causing harm is bad, it is good to take reasonable steps to minimise harm.
I don't know everything about everything and everyone, so sometimes it is better to just shut the fek up.
I have biases, I don't accept my life's purpose must be to banish them absolutely, but don't think I should give them free reign either.
I agree with you disagreeing, provided we are talking about the same political correctness.

Self-censorship is hardly betrayal. In fact, it can often serve you far better than the opposite. It has its time and place. In my case, that time and place is often alongside the complete lack of censorship. For instance;

Assuming we are in an adult discussion about some issue, I will certainly not treat you as too weak to hear my opinion as it is, even when it breaks from the standing orthodoxy on the subject, but nor will I question the chastity of your mother as a debating, literary or other tool unless it is somehow directly related to the subject matter at hand. Being rather on the self-serving side, I will also try to avoid the Wrath of the Machine, unless I'm confident enough in my ability to live on my particular hill.

This only relates to the latter kind of political correctness I talked about in my initial response. Still, that is the "whole" scope of how most people seem to understand the term today. It's actually more about being nice than politically correct in its original Marxist-Leninist sense or something near to it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

MarcusA

Okay, self-censorship is the betrayal of the artist in you.
This user has been banned for spamming the forum.

Asmodean

Yes, it is probably that. I would still not go so far as call it "betrayal," more a disservice to your artistic integrity, and that only where applicable.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

MarcusA

My mother on her deathbed
told me, Never change,
and I intend to.
This user has been banned for spamming the forum.

Asmodean

Me..? I stopped listening to mine (in the sense of following advice "just because mother") sometime in my teenage years. Have for the most part done alright for myself, both in spite of and because of it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Recusant

Quote from: The Magic Pudding. on June 07, 2023, 10:35:46 PM
Quote from: Recusant on June 07, 2023, 09:41:14 PM
Quote from: MarcusA on June 07, 2023, 07:11:34 PMRecusant, what about a game of Tug-of-War? In that sport, you tow a line.

Yes, and a mule tows a line on a barge.
A tugboat tows a line on a ship.

The idiom "toe the line" has to do with meeting expectation, and has as its possible origin runners in a race stepping to the line to begin the race. "Tow the line," though a common error, is not only incorrect it carries a different (if perhaps adjacent) connotation.


The mast is cracking as the waves are slapping
All toe the line and tow the line lest we sink


Heave-ho!  :mustache:
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


MarcusA

Censorship, cancel culture, is a disservice to art.
This user has been banned for spamming the forum.

billy rubin

what about the display or sale of things depicting people being harmed?

this problem has a number of complx issues

paintings of battling soldiers

snuff films

use of experimental results obtained from nazis vivisecting jews


set the function, not the mechanism.

MarcusA

Morality is not a one-size-fits-all sort of deal.
This user has been banned for spamming the forum.

billy rubin

then neither can be censorship, wouldnt you think?


set the function, not the mechanism.

MarcusA

Censorship is a judgement call. "Judge not, lest you be judged."
This user has been banned for spamming the forum.

Asmodean

#29
Quote from: MarcusA on June 08, 2023, 05:57:48 PMCensorship, cancel culture, is a disservice to art.
Cancel culture ought to have its picture framed right beside "disservice" in a disctionary. It hurts artists, employers, people in general and what's more, it hurts its own causes.

Quote from: billy rubin on June 08, 2023, 08:14:11 PMthis problem has a number of complx issues
I think this about describes it. It's a matter of context, although I think that we can "talk" (also in form of images and such like) for the purposes of exchanging ideas about pretty-much anything.

Quote from: billy rubin on June 08, 2023, 08:14:11 PMwhat about the display or sale of things depicting people being harmed?
Every book, film and video game store (conventional or streaming/digital) does this. If it happens to be a documentary you are selling, where people being hurt happens to be for real... What's to be done? It's fine as described.

Quotepaintings of battling soldiers
Quotesnuff films
Some great art and/or informative content may come from precisely that. Even the medieval variety tends to have people depicted with stabby objects inserted in them and blood spraying everywhere. It's a bit stylised, to be sure, but one must assume that many such paintings and illustrations were based on actual people, events and fountains of gore. My medieval fascinations aside, I guess a picture speaks louder than words, so I leave you with a loud picture;



Quoteuse of experimental results obtained from nazis vivisecting jews
This, I think, is the legitimately difficult one here because the context has been provided.

There is an expression, "fruit of a poisonous tree." Personally, I prefer "meat of a poisonous fish." Does much the same thing. (Simply for the lack of knowledge of poisonous trees with edible fruit - I suck at botany, but have had fugu)

So... Yeah. I think it depends. You could eat the metaphorical fish, but it would have to be done with great care, so as not to end up dead in the process.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.