When one conveys certain things, particularly of such gravity, should one not then appropriately cite sources, authorities...
Started by Ecurb Noselrub, January 16, 2023, 08:34:16 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 16, 2023, 08:34:16 PMThis thread is a result of Asmo's interest in India, as expressed to me in the TNP thread. He wanted to hear more about it, so here goes. In 2003, 2004, and 2005 I visted India for about two weeks each time. The church I attended at the time was building/sponsoring orphanages among some tribal or lower caste peoples. I visited Bangalore and Guntur in the south, Visakhapatnam on the east coast, a village in the jungles of Odisha a bit more inland, and the major cities of Mumbai (Bombay), Dehli and Agra. More time was spent in the Odisha jungle because that is where a lot of work on the orphanage was done. It was an adventure getting there. We took a jeep to a river, then crossed the river by canoe, then rode on the back of motorcycles several miles to get to the village. It was totally remote and isolated. There are cobras and tigers in the area, as well as a violent Marxist group known as Naxolites. Fortunately, I avoided all of them.
QuoteMy scariest moment in India was in a town in Odisha when we visited an orphanage. A radical Hindu group surrounded us and wanted to know why we were there. We tried to leave in our jeep but they prevented it. The police finally came, placed us under arrest, and then gave us the third degree in the police station, for the benefit of the television reporters. The mob was still outside. Once the mob disbursed about midnight, they took us to a railway station about 20 miles away and told us to leave. The police chief said "those people will kill you." I did not doubt him.
QuoteI mentioned in the TNP thread that I am allergic to Mumbai. The air was almost impossible to breathe - exhaust from a million cars and the stench of raw sewage filled the air. We drove by the largest slum in the world at the time - I could see inside and it looked like my idea of hell - dark streets, fires burning, people living in squalor, crapping and peeing in the open. I saw children living on top of garbage dumps - they would appear at my car door and look inside. Haunting.
QuoteOn the positive side, the people are generally nice. But they stare at you, especially the lower classes, who had never seen someone who looked like us - white. Even the poor women are adorned colorfully in their saris. I like the food, generally, and there was some beautiful scenery. Obviously, buildings like the Taj Mahal in Agra or the Red Fort in Dehli, or some of the temples, are absolutely beautiful.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PMIn Asmo's grey lump, wrath and dark clouds gather force.Luxembourg trembles.
Quote from: Asmodean on January 17, 2023, 08:13:04 AMFascinating! What do people live off in those remote areas? I mean, I suppose they farm and hunt and such, but where does what money there is come from? I suppose it's difficult to sell goods without the proper infrastructure to do so and tourism... Sufficient hordes of tourists like paved roads, too.
QuoteYeah... I've seen those "flash mobs" in a documentary or three - mostly about child labour in sweat shops. What was their beef with you lot though? I mean... visiting an orphanage does not sound... Mob-worthy?
QuoteThat's my thing. Were India less crowded, it would have been far higher on my to-visit list, and even as it is, it's not precisely low. It looks and sounds like a place worth experiencing.
Quote from: No one on January 18, 2023, 01:49:24 AMHoly cow, naan gonna lie, i don't get the radicals beef with you.Next time, maybe try to curry favor with them.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 18, 2023, 12:44:03 PMAnother impression from India is how crazy they drive.
QuoteIt's bad enough that they drive on the left side of the road (thanks to the British Empire), but there are so many cars and they drive crazy. I was sitting in the front passenger seat on a long trip and I think I had 5 heart attacks. How the whole thing doesn't result in a giant train wreck, I don't know.
QuoteIn Dehli the outside electrical lines looked like a mass of tangled spiders' webs at the point where they connected to buildings.
QuoteWe were also taken one time to a sort of leper colony, but it was on the street of a city. These poor people had their hands eaten off by the disease. I had never seen the disease before, and it was shocking.
Quote from: Asmodean on January 19, 2023, 08:51:27 AMI have heard a documentary filmmaker speculate that it may be because they have a different and rather more fatalistic view of "mortal danger" than "we" do. "If gods/the universe/fate wills it - I'll make it. If not... Not." Do you think there is any truth to that, broadly speaking (As in, I'm sure you could find an occasional person holding that view in every country, but is it more prevalent in India?)
QuoteThat is another thing I've seen that fascinates me. The engineer in me cringes and cries, but then the approach is... different. It doesn't seem to be based around nets localised to buildings or even blocks, but rather, nets localised to the streets. It can't be for the ease of maintenance... Pure lack of planning and/or resource management..? Or is there a reason beyond that?
QuoteDo those exist in India to this day? Leprosy is treatable with antibiotics - a multiagent therapy, I believe, so one would think that there would be no need for colonies to stash one's lepers in to protect the wider population? Or do they have issues with drug resistant strains, perhaps?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 19, 2023, 09:16:40 AMMy last visit was almost 20 years ago, so things may have changed. But with so many poor people, I suspect that there simply aren't the resources and availability of medical care that we have in the West. I looked up the average lifespan, and in 2002-2006 it was 63.5, and now it is almost 70, so things appear to be getting better. Here is an article on it from WHO: https://www.who.int/india/news/detail/01-02-2022-supporting-leprosy-elimination-in-indiaThe poverty rate there has dropped to 16.4%, so it's getting better. https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/poverty-in-india-statistics-2021/ But that's still 228 million people, well above the population of any country in Europe. Imagine that many poor people.