Started by billy rubin, October 28, 2022, 10:30:44 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on October 28, 2022, 10:30:44 PMin america we do this weird thing on all hallows eve where we dress up as things that we are not.theres lots of ghostly and spooky dressing, some pretty awful grusesome and ghoulish stuff, and lots of innocent costuming.kids in the states wander around knocking on doors to get a handful of candy from the occupants, iy ==f they are participating.as a child, i dressed up as a hobo, a devil, a camel, and probably other stuff that i cannot remember.lately dressing up as something you are not has become controversial:https://www.ohio.edu/diversity/diversity-leadership-ambassadors-program/cultural-appropriation"cultural appropriation" is a strange idea to me. it is one thing to dress up in blackface as a caricature of real african people. but is it a sin to dress up as a black musician?what if i want to dress up as stevie wonder, or ray charles?people do.or wearing a kimono. the above website from a university on my state appears to assert that only japanese people can wear a kimono, only mexican people can wear a sombrero, only american indians can dress as american indians . . .is this right?i have read japanese people who state that they are honored to have their culture recognized and honored by someone who takes th trouble to research and dress as a member of their culture.but i have also seen american businessmen in arizona make up fake kachina dances for their shriner-style parade acts where they wore genuine kachina costumes but made up the rest. in my opinion that crosses a line.but where is that line? is ohio university correct, in that wearing the clothing of another culture is a social crime? what does a japanese student at ohio university wear on school days? do american indian students appropriate gringo culture by wearing blue jeans?can a chinese student wear american shoes without giving offence?what is going on?
Quote"cultural appropriation" is a strange idea to me. it is one thing to dress up in blackface as a caricature of real african people. but is it a sin to dress up as a black musician?what if i want to dress up as stevie wonder, or ray charles?
Quote from: billy rubin on October 29, 2022, 07:18:15 PMblackface is easy. its a horrible misrepresentation of another people, whether were talking al jolson singing in the first talkie, or black peter walking down the street with santa at christmas.those fake kachina dancers in arizona added religion-- a bunch of gringo busoinessmen dressed up as real hopi kachinas-- reaL gods that real people worshipped, then made up funny routines of dancing and so on that they oeformed in public.this is the equivalent of a bunch of muslims dressing up as christ carrying a cross and roman soldiers whipping him as part of a cruxifixion parade, where they skipped and sang funny songs down the street in front of christians on the sidewalk.my interest is in the nuances. i have been told that only chinese people can wear chines clothes. that only amerindians can wear a feather in their hair.im a nominal amerindian, but im culturally a gringo. can i eat chinese food? can i wear the malay sarongs that have been my casual choice of housewear for almost sixty years? halloween is a a holiday designed around dressing up as something that you are not, and about not taking it seriously. what are the rules? can my son dress as a medeival knight in the armour that he competes in? can he compete at all, given that he is actually not a 12th century slavic warrior?
Quote from: billy rubin on October 29, 2022, 10:43:40 PMi dunnoill never figure this stuff out.im a quaker. i havent done jack shit for any halloween, or any holidays at all, for as long as i can easily remember. its not an issue for me.what is an issue is the idea that there exist non-reciprocal relationships among people. my number two daughter expressed it in terms of power:it is okay for a black person to call other black people niggers, but not for a white person to do so.i get that.then she said, it is okay for a black person to call a white person a honkie, whether the white person objects or not.^^^this troubles me. why is it okay to be offensive in one context, but not in another? why can a blacj person call me an offensive name, but i am not permitted to recipocate?she explained it was a function of "power dynamics." i understand the issues she raised. but im having difficulty figuring out how the actual act of racial/cultural/ethnic insults is not important, but rather what matters is who is being insulted?this doesnt make sense to me. if there is such a things as right and wrong, i believe it should exist independently of who is being helped or harmed.is this an unpopular view?
QuoteI don't think it's OK for anyone to call other people derogatory names: honky, wetback, nigger, etc.
Quote from: billy rubin on October 30, 2022, 01:00:20 AMi don't.QuoteI don't think it's OK for anyone to call other people derogatory names: honky, wetback, nigger, etc.^^^this is the key.why can't we just get along?
Quote from: billy rubin on October 30, 2022, 01:00:20 AMI look at all people as equals. if I work to give them respect, I want to see that they share that value, and would choose to extend respect in return.if they can't or won't do that, then fuck them. i will choose my company among people who share mutual respect as a value.
Quote from: Magdalena on October 30, 2022, 01:20:55 AMMLK was right, his famous words apply to everyone.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PMIn Asmo's grey lump, wrath and dark clouds gather force.Luxembourg trembles.
Quote from: Asmodean on October 30, 2022, 07:26:35 PMQuote from: Magdalena on October 30, 2022, 01:20:55 AMMLK was right, his famous words apply to everyone.Well... The culture that saw race as a point of significant biological and/or social difference largely gave way to a culture that refused to see it as something at all special or noteworthy, which in turn largely gave way to a culture that refuses to see anything past race. Actually, let me amend that; it refuses to see beyond victimhood, usually of the most superficial variety.I think that in their chase of whatever utopian dream it is they profess, people may have stared in the proverbial abyss a tad too long, and now... The gadgets get fancier, but history - it repeats, as it does.Getting along... Yeah, it's a nice dream. Personally, I'd be content with "us" just giving less of a fuck about that, which is none of our business unless specifically invited into it. If I don't care where you come from or to what you pray or how you take your coffee - then I probably don't care to hold any of that against you, no?