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A spectrum of atheism.

Started by Tank, October 17, 2022, 12:00:03 PM

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Tank

I am coming to the conclusion that there is a spectrum of atheism from the rational to the emotional. Let me say that there is no such thing as a good or bad atheist. Neither view is right or wrong. Coming to understand that gods are myths is the point however you reach that point.

The rational end of the spectrum is rooted in the lack of evidence arguments and the understanding of reality and how it actually functions.

The emotional end is rooted in the absurdity of religions, belief and faith. The denial of the ridiculous claims made by religions and the faithful.

These two ends are also not mutually exclusive. One can exist in a state of atheism embracing aspects all across the spectrum.

What should not be done is atheists fighting among themselves over how they reached the understanding that there are no gods.

Your thoughts?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

#1
Quote from: Tank on October 17, 2022, 12:00:03 PMYour thoughts?
...Are many, and have mostly been expressed on several occasions.

That said, I think Atheism is to a spectrum what political alignment is to a left-right line. It's not that unidimensional, nor is it necessarily an unbroken continuum throughout.

For example, both rational and emotional atheists can share the opinion that atheism is prescriptive to moral views and even politics at times ("As an atheist, I this and that...") Others think it is merely descriptive. ("This and that, therefore call me an an atheist") Just using that additional dimension gives us a sort of a atheist compass, with x-axis being rational vs emotional and y-axsis being atheism vs. Atheism+.

You can also find new axes within those axes, but my point here is not to invent ahteist intersectionalism - it is merely to try and demonstrate that a unidimensional first degree of approximation to what ahteism means may be a tad simplistic in the multidimentional reality,  within which we have the misfortune of finding ourselves.

My personal view probably falls into a rational-descriptive corner. I am only atheist because the label fits in the sense that I do not believe in gods. I do not believe in them in the sense that what I do and don't believe is actually irrelevant - it's what I can and cannot reasonably demonstrate to be a good approximation of reality that counts. If my model of reality has no room for a particular deity, then I live my life as though that deity did not exist. In specific cases, I can go one step further and state that that particular deity point cannot exist as described - usually because of some self-contradicting lore, or just out-dated lore that contradicts vastly superior models of reality.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Prycejosh1987

I believe that evidence for faith and spirituality is out there. The real question is are you looking for that evidence. Atheists tend to watch alot of biased religious content, which is made against faith.
i would say that God is consistent in the way He deals with people. Faith is connection to God. Evidence is historical and archaeological. The land of Israel exits and Jeuss is a figure known by most scholars. There is also the shroud of turin, which verifies Jesus in a new way than other evidences.

Tank

More BS from a fucking brain dead moron.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin



Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

Dark Lightning

Quote from: billy rubin on August 24, 2023, 12:40:46 AMlol

the shroud of turin?



IK,R? That shroud was debunked yonks ago. And if one had asked about a "Jeuss" figure in "AD" 80 (even and likely especially among the educated), they'd have given one a blank look.

Asmodean

Ok, Jesus' advocate time. Well... Sort-of.

Let us say that the shroud is a shroud and that it was peeled off the festering remains of a Jesus. That proves divinity how, exactly?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Recusant

As I understand it, the image of the body was produced "miraculously." Supernatural emanations from the body created the image and therefore it is a godly artifact.

There had already been a number of supposed burial shrouds of Jesus when it first appeared, none of which had anything like the full-body image on the item in question. There were a few smaller cloths that had images of a face, most notably the "Veil of Veronica" which had been around for a few centuries before the appearance of the "Shroud of Turin."
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Tom62

Nowadays Jesus only appears on toasted bread and dog butts.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

billy rubin



Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

Asmodean

Quote from: Recusant on August 24, 2023, 04:22:16 PMAs I understand it, the image of the body was produced "miraculously." Supernatural emanations from the body created the image and therefore it is a godly artifact.
At the risk of sounding insensitive... Ah, who am I kidding? How is corpse goo miraculous?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Recusant

 :lol:  The image is too precise to merely be natural oozing.  Looks as if it were painted by an artist, it does.  Miraculous! 
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Asmodean

Right.

You see, this is the part i don't get. The proposed explanation [God and godly things] is so far "out there" and the proposed hurdles for ye-olde regular goo to overcome to be the cause of the condition so comparatively thin, that... How could one take it as a proof, even indirect, of divinity?

I mean... Brown-ish streaks upon canvass. One way of achieving those could be wiping your bottom with it after a particularly vile bout of diarrhoea. Picture this; you are a turnip farmer from 2000 years ago. There you are, walking over to the market with them 'nips to sell, when suddenly that breakfast you ate that morning starts to heave and churn. In desperation, you spot a cave and run into it. Your bottom explodes with the violence of a dying star. Now you have a problem. Can't go to the market and peddle them 'nips that way, now can you? And so you start looking around and your eyes fall upon a corpse in a pristine, white shroud. Necessity being the mother of invention and the killer of morality, you borrow the unfortunate former-gentleman's clothing to... Make yourself presentable. But being a good and proper turnip farmer, you return it after use.

...Have we ruled diarrhoea and people seeing Jesus in poo scenario out as a possibility? (This still assuming that the shroud is the shroud and there has, at some point, been a dead guy in it)

It broadly applies to other such ""holy"" ""relics"" too. Ok. So with the best will in the world, you have a piece of wood which comes from a cross upon which a guy named Jesus was once nailed. This equals God..? How?!

Even if you look at them all together, they fail to reach the level of unimpressive, and yet many a less sceptical mind seems to be impressed.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Icarus

I received a letter with an offer for a subscription to a magazine. It is called Biblical Anthropology.  At the price of $6.95 I am tempted to subscribe.

As a subscriber, my name will no doubt appear on all sorts of religious mailing lists. Many of them will ask for money to do the lords work. Naah! I'd better save my $6.95.