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the coming apocalypse

Started by billy rubin, September 24, 2022, 09:27:34 PM

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billy rubin

i'm currently chatting with asmo about the pluses and minuses of different economic systems. in the course of looking into the end times, i've been reading about how the uber-rich are trying to find ways of surviving.

elon musk, of course, wants to go to mars. it never occurs to him that he would be the first person ejected from the air lock along the way.

but others are giving it thought:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

QuoteThey started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected by the coming climate crisis? It only got worse from there. Which was the greater threat: global warming or biological warfare? How long should one plan to be able to survive with no outside help? Should a shelter have its own air supply? What was the likelihood of groundwater contamination? Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system, and asked: "How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?" The event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable virus, or malicious computer hack that takes everything down.

This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?

The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed "in time".

is this where we're headed?


more people have been to berlin than i have

Tank

 :popcorn:

With Putin threatening nukes this could be closer than we think.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

yes.

putin is in a position where it is possible that he can decide that a world without him in charge is one in which he has no interest.

could easily escalate to insanity. his views are not safe for the rst of us.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Old Seer

Which end time are you referring to, the biblical end time or one set in motion by present political events.  :)
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

billy rubin

Quote from: Old Seer on September 25, 2022, 03:16:10 AMWhich end time are you referring to, the biblical end time or one set in motion by present political events.  :)


im referring strictly to the secular destruction of our natural world and civilization through our own actions, seer.

certainly there are christians preparing for the events foretold in the various apocalyptic writings, such as the revelation or 2 esdras, but theyve been waiting for 2000 years now.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Old Seer

From what and how I understand things you'd be correct.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Asmodean

Hmm... I don't think this is it.

The West™ is collapsing a bit, but "it" also sees it and tries to prevent it. It may succeed yet. Russia is... Dangerous, but that's Russia. Will they launch the nukes? Perhaps. Will that be the end of civilization? Doubtful.

The Rich™ likely have better odds of making it well enough through the "end times," but that too is sort-of business as usual, and applies to rich nations as well as individuals. That's not to say that the times won't be hard - very hard, in fact, but not as hard as they are likely to be in countries that rely on outside help, as I suspect that is one of the first things to stop when the shit hits the fan in them wealthier parts of the world.

That said, and to reiterate, I do not think this is it - or even the beginning of it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Ecurb Noselrub

Somebody in the Russian government/military who actually likes living will kill Putin before letting him launch nukes. He can give the order, but somebody will pull a trigger before they press the button.

billy rubin

we almoss went there in 1983

one low level soviet technician said, that doesnt look like enough american nukes to make up an armageddon . . .

he didnt report it, and didnt believe the alarms.

it ws a shitty soviet alarm system that was looking at clouds and thinking they were american ICBMs.

he saved the world because he was skeptical.


more people have been to berlin than i have

billy rubin



more people have been to berlin than i have

Tank

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on September 26, 2022, 11:29:21 PMSomebody in the Russian government/military who actually likes living will kill Putin before letting him launch nukes. He can give the order, but somebody will pull a trigger before they press the button.

This thought is what allows me to sleep at night.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

Hm... I wouldn't trust that to happen enough to matter, if push comes to shove. Should the Russian government decide to launch tactical nukes, then they will be launched. As matters stand today, I don't think they will take that step, and if they do, EU will likely fold like the wet toilet paper it is, the US will make tons of smoke, but no fire, NATO... Will NATO on, unless directly attack - precisely as it was designed to do, with tons of shiny military hardware and increased readiness and all kinds of forces being hurriedly mobilised to its eastern flank, and the rest of the world will... Wait and see. That's my prediction. Anyway, we are not there [yet.] That danger only becomes acute if there is no way for them to spin their military disaster into victory, which... It seems like precisely what they are working on with them annexations.

I also don't think a man-in-charge change would do very much without a accompanying regime change, and Russians tend to outsource their politics to all the same kinds of people, so... What's the difference between this Putin and another one?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Asmodean

Been reading something in my feeds from an ex-CIA guy who was talking about how Putin can't afford to lose. I agree with that sentiment, though for broader reasons than the guy presented.

I think it's far more than Putin. Russian government has presented a facade of strength - of being a world power - both externally, to the best of their ability, and internally, with great success, mildly helped by their wars in Syria, Georgia and Crimea, where their opponent for all practical purposes chose not to fight or had no combined arms forces to speak of. The rest was easy enough with many enough of the media lying "the same way." The Russian public has largely "outsourced" their opinion on international politics to the corridors of power, counting on them to both talk the talk and walk the walk. "We see this. It must be so." Then, it is up to those corridors of power to make it so in order to remain powerful and corridor-shaped. It's a vicious cycle of biting more than one can chew on a dare, then doubling down.

Faced with an opponent willing to fight, it appears that the conventional Russian military really is no more than a paper tiger - a big and angry one, to be sure - but just as flammable for that. If their drunken rabble can barely hold its own against Ukraine, how is Russia (in its own eyes) a counter-balance to NATO and the West? From another angle, if Russia loses a proxy war against the West over territory they consider theirs, then the image of Russia as "a continent, a world military power and a force to be reckoned with" would dim "slightly."

So yeah... I think indeed Putin cannot afford to lose - but it doesn't stop with him or even his inner circles. Russia is incapable of "just taking the L."
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.