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Canadian Freedom Convoy

Started by Mr. B, February 14, 2022, 10:17:14 PM

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Mr. B

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Dark Lightning

I think that a convoy of monster tow trucks should descend on this debacle and tow all the trucks off to an impound lot. These self-centered eejits are just going to help the spread of the disease.

billy rubin

commercial heavy tow and recovery drivdrs and companies probably wouldnt want to piss off tbeir customers

but the military has tow trucks for anything.


more people have been to berlin than i have

Icarus

A demonstration of one, maybe two days would have been enough to register their dissatisfaction.  Beyond that, the whole deal becomes akin to anarchy. 

I would be supportive of sending in the big military equipment to haul those big rigs to the impound yard. 

When truckers have no trucks, they make no money.  Surely, the dissidents have thought that through. All that bullshit to oppose a simple set of vaccinations?   

Mr. B

I understand from the news that they cleared the Ambassador Bridge a couple days ago on Sunday. Makes me wonder, why invoke the Emergency Act on Monday? Four provinces have announced that they are going to wind down the covid restrictions. Some of the language used by the Prime Minister desribing the people involved and the measures they are now taking appal me.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Recusant

Quote from: Dark Lightning on February 14, 2022, 10:39:09 PM. . . these self-centered eejits are just going to help the spread of the disease.

:this:

* * *

The police initially tried to discourage this:

"Pro-convoy protest thwarted by counter-demonstration in downtown Kingston" | The Recorder & Times

QuoteA planned protest outside Kingston City Hall in support of the so-called "Freedom Convoy" was thwarted by counter-demonstrators on Saturday afternoon.

The "downtown slow roll" was planned to take place between 1:30 and 3:30 p.m on Saturday, and saw cars driving slowly from Gardiners Road and Highway 401 down to Kingston City Hall for a planned demonstration against public health regulations.

In response to the planned event, more than 100 counter-demonstrators arrived outside City Hall to protest the event, holding signs saying "End White Supremacy," "Individual freedom without responsibility is called childhood" and "Nazis F— Off."

Concern regarding the fascist and racist messaging of the "Freedom Convoy" protests has been raised since Day 1. A key organizer of the event, Pat King, is a known white supremacist, and many known white supremacists have expressed support for the protests. Hateful and racist symbols, including Confederate flags and swastikas, were seen in the crowd of protesters in Ottawa, and the Gadsden flag — a far-right symbol — could be seen flying on the back of a truck in Kingston on Saturday.

For Lindsay Legere, a health-care worker in Kingston, standing up against the "Freedom Convoy" is standing up against racism and fascism.

"We want to make the message clear that we don't support fascism, we don't support racism, and we don't support going against health mandates that protect vulnerable members of society and health-care workers," she said.

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


jumbojak

Quote from: Mr. B on February 15, 2022, 08:53:34 PM
I understand from the news that they cleared the Ambassador Bridge a couple days ago on Sunday. Makes me wonder, why invoke the Emergency Act on Monday? Four provinces have announced that they are going to wind down the covid restrictions. Some of the language used by the Prime Minister desribing the people involved and the measures they are now taking appal me.

Why? Because it is a convenient way to rally the base. When the leader of a country is suggesting that his Jewish opposition is supporting Nazis we are so far removed from rational discussion and debate that the principal of charity no longer applies. If he wants to maintain power he has to crush his opposition.

The demands of the truckers are not unreasonable. Why do we have to mandate vaccination when the vaccines currently available are not particularly effective at preventing infection or transmission? Why? Why?

Why is it basically impossible to report any side effects that are not fatigue or soreness at the injection site? Why are there no provisions made for anyone who has actually had COVID when the evidence I have seen show greater protection than vaccination?

It doesn't make sense and huge swathes of the world are reaching the same conclusion. COVID is not going away. We are going to have to live with it.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Bad Penny II

Quote from: jumbojak on February 22, 2022, 01:50:07 AM
The demands of the truckers are not unreasonable. Why do we have to mandate vaccination when the vaccines currently available are not particularly effective at preventing infection or transmission? Why? Why?

Ye maybe, still they prevent most people dying.
Less people have to go to hospital.
People that need to go to hospital for the usual pre covid reasons, cancer treatment for example can.
I heard
It's not an I heard
No, it isn't.
A woman ready to give birth turns up at her local hospital, oh no, we're a covid ward now, travel to the next town, she gives birth on the side of the road, luckily they both live.
The health workers are bound by some sort of moral code, so the can't just turn away the fucking idiot moron anitvaxers.
Why can't the big baby antivaxers accept their vaccines like like little babies do?
It's OK now big baby antivaxer, that was a nasty needle, I'll give you a hug now.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: jumbojak on February 22, 2022, 01:50:07 AM
The demands of the truckers are not unreasonable. Why do we have to mandate vaccination when the vaccines currently available are not particularly effective at preventing infection or transmission? Why? Why?

Why is it basically impossible to report any side effects that are not fatigue or soreness at the injection site? Why are there no provisions made for anyone who has actually had COVID when the evidence I have seen show greater protection than vaccination?

It doesn't make sense and huge swathes of the world are reaching the same conclusion. COVID is not going away. We are going to have to live with it.

The scientific consensus is that vaccines do save lives, decrease the number of serious cases and deaths and as a consequence lessen the load on public health systems with less people requiring costly treatments and using up specialised hospital facilities and medical professionals, such as ICUs and ICU doctors and nurses, which could be used to treat other life-threatening diseases. What are the tolls of "secondary" non-covid related deaths during this pandemic? Did anybody count how far those ripples went yet?

Using Brazil as an example, the vermin wannabe dictator Bolsonaro tried to facilitate transmission of the virus from the very beginning, claiming the best way to achieve herd immunity was through infection of the entire population. Those who would die weren't fit to live anyway. Massive fake news and anti-science campaigns are rampant to discredit all sources of objectively better information regarding covid and vaccines. He was called out and still is being called out as a genocidal maniac.     

The whole debate surrounding mandatory vaccination is a tricky one because it's precisely where individual freedoms and public health clash. Most people will not willingly give up their individual freedoms (if and when they perceive them to be under threat). However, there are huge flaws in anti-vaccine thinking.

First, covid in many cases doesn't just infect a person and disappear. The virus comes, does its thing and goes, but the  body's immune response and inflammatory effects that come with infection can be so great that it can harm tissues and organs such as the brain, heart, lungs. And the thing is, if you hurt the brain, what you get is non-functional scar tissue. Irreversible. Same with the heart and lungs. Is it really worth the risk? I'd rather have to deal with vaccine side-effects for a short while than spend upwards of a year struggling with "long-covid" symptoms such as fatigue, brain fog, etc...

You can't put a price tag on human suffering, but thinking as a cold-hearted monster such as Bolsonaro, the economic burden of overcrowded publicly funded health systems filled with unvaccinated, seriously sick covid patients, deaths of breadwinners of poverty-stricken families, decreased middle-classes and increased lower-classes, deaths of qualified health professionals, loss of jobs, etc. far outweigh investments to purchase vaccines for everyone. Even if the vaccinated still transmit the virus, at least some protection against developing serious disease is in place. Again, is it worth not getting vaccinated?

I am genuinely curious as to why antivaxxers are so against the covid vaccine. Especially those who have access to good information and the level of education to think critically about the mountain of information that gets thrown at us everyday. It really makes no sense to me, at least not on a rational, truly free-thinking level. Which is kinda ironic since a lot of the arguments you hear from these manipulated free-thinkers against mandated vaccination is that people should be free to make their own choices. Free.  ::) Right...   

But I do agree that covid is most likely here to stay, in some form or another. And I don't think it's a virus that would have wiped out humanity, even if vaccines were never available. Life adapts and life goes on. But vaccines are available. It really makes no rational sense.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Recusant

Virologists and epidemiologists spend long years getting to the point where they can evaluate the evidence and understand the variables. "Do your own research" is bullshit. If "freedom loving" truck drivers don't trust the scientists because of whatever reason, so be it.

For now, skipping the question of where the funding for the "Freedom Convoy" came from, and why.

Below, a summary of findings regarding the difference between the immunity acquired from vaccination vs. infection. Never mind that vaccination is safer than infection by a considerable magnitude. The article from the National Institutes of Health references a paper--I'll include links to them both.

"How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection" | National Institutes of Health

QuoteA key issue as we move closer to ending the pandemic is determining more precisely how long people exposed to SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 virus, will make neutralizing antibodies against this dangerous coronavirus. Finding the answer is also potentially complicated with new SARS-CoV-2 "variants of concern" appearing around the world that could find ways to evade acquired immunity, increasing the chances of new outbreaks. Now, a new NIH-supported study shows that the answer to this question will vary based on how an individual's antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 were generated: over the course of a naturally acquired infection or from a COVID-19 vaccine. The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying "single letter" changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection. These results add to evidence that people with acquired immunity may have differing levels of protection to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants. More importantly, the data provide further documentation that those who've had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated.

[Continues . . .]

"Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection" | Science Translational Medicine

QuoteAbstract:

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) variants with mutations in key antibody epitopes has raised concerns that antigenic evolution could erode adaptive immunity elicited by prior infection or vaccination. The susceptibility of immunity to viral evolution is shaped in part by the breadth of epitopes targeted by antibodies elicited by vaccination or natural infection.

To investigate how human antibody responses to vaccines are influenced by viral mutations, we used deep mutational scanning to compare the specificity of polyclonal antibodies elicited by either two doses of the mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine or natural infection with SARS-CoV-2.

The neutralizing activity of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more targeted to the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein compared to antibodies elicited by natural infection. However, within the RBD, binding of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more broadly distributed across epitopes compared to infection-elicited antibodies. This greater binding breadth means that single RBD mutations have less impact on neutralization by vaccine sera compared to convalescent sera. Therefore, antibody immunity acquired by natural infection or different modes of vaccination may have a differing susceptibility to erosion by SARS-CoV-2 evolution.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

in america in 2021, non covid deaths from the usual causes was up 17 percent, iirc

people couldnt get into the hospitals.

my mother in law spent a day on a bed in the emergency room because of heart problems. all the beds in the ICU were full of dying vaccine deniers.

as soon as she was finally admitted, her doctors told her, youre not getting out of that bed without a pacemaker.

shes goid now, but she could have been part of that 17 percent


more people have been to berlin than i have

Mr. B

#11
Did you know that it has been widely reported and often repeated that the trucking industry in Canada has a 90% vaccinated rate? They are not "anti-vax". They are "anti-mandate"

So the story goes.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Recusant

Quote from: Mr. B on February 23, 2022, 12:08:53 AM
Did you know that it has been widely reported and often repeated that the trucking industry in Canada has a 90% vaccinated rate? They are not "anti-vax". They are "anti-mandate"

So the story goes.

How many of that 90% are "anti-mandate"? 

"A Professional Trucker's Views of the Canadian 'Freedom Convoy'" | Smerconish

QuoteThese protesters are hurting a lot of people, and ultimately, the actions of this "Freedom Convoy" will cause many people to resent truckers. We gained a hero status at the beginning of the pandemic, for moving much-needed emergency equipment and PPE where it was needed the most. Truckers have always been there.

Those few truckers who are fueling this so-called "Freedom Convoy" and holding up our economy are not representative of all of us. They should not wreck our image anymore and go to work.

[Link to full article.]

"Canadian truck drivers distance themselves from 'Freedom Convoy' protests" | The Washington Post via Anchorage Daily News

Quote[E]ven as the vocal group of truckers, known as the "Freedom Convoy," grabbed the world's attention, many of Canada's truck drivers were scrambling to distance themselves from the movement, which they view as radical and fringe.

In their view, the protesters' actions – including shutting down cross-border trade and laying siege to the capital – have hurt rather than helped drivers in the industry, and failed to advance the labor issues most truckers care about. They point out that only a small percentage of Canadian truckers have joined the demonstrations, and the vast majority of drivers are already vaccinated, according to trucking associations and Canadian authorities.

"There is a vocal minority, which is trying to steal the headlines, but a silent majority has actually been working day and night," said Manan Gupta, publisher of Road Today, a Canadian magazine for South Asian truckers. About a third of Canada's roughly 180,000 tractor-trailer drivers are immigrants, according to the most recent survey, in 2016.

The protests have caused long delays at the border and forced drivers to take lengthy detours. Such disruptions are "not received well" by truckers who are not participating in the convoy, Gupta said, adding that "they are the ones keeping our supply chain intact and running."

"These illegal blockades have had a detrimental impact on our members and customers' businesses. These have also had a very significant negative impact upon our professional driving community," the president of the Canadian Trucking Alliance, Stephen Laskowski, said in a statement Monday.

[Continues . . .]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

im a truck driver. im vaccinated, three times.

i approve of civil disobedience, when it is directed at the people or institutions being protested.

so i approved of peaceful BLM demonstrations, but not of blocking public streets or neighborhoods.

i disapproved of the brownshirt response the BLM people got from the police.

i support the canadians in protesting their government  but not in parking their trucks in front of peoples houses for three weeks.

in america i still support peaceful protests, but somebody who says he will block a major freeway and all the people who cant get to work can suck it is not an ally of mine.

there is a park in front of the capital. they can go ptotest there. i doubt whether the police will charge them with horses so that biden can wave a bible at the photographers.


more people have been to berlin than i have