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Toying with an idea...

Started by hackenslash, February 08, 2022, 10:19:53 PM

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billy rubin

why?

it looks flat to me, everywhere ive ever been.

if you have no knowledge of earth geometry or astonomy than what you expwrience for yourself, it seems like a logical conclusion to assume that what you see is the way it is



Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

Mr. B

Quote from: hackenslash on February 08, 2022, 10:19:53 PM
I do intend to do a lot about things people know about science that aren't true, like time beginning at the big bang, and that sort of thing, so I have some coverage there. That's not to say I'm not interested in examples of that, too, but I'm looking for more general things people think are true that aren't.

If you go outside while it's cold and rainy without proper attire, you'll catch the common cold. I don't think that is how the common saying goes but as I was growing up it was taught to me that it's not safe to play in the rain. Especially in the winter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbUC-UaAxE
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Tank

Quote from: hackenslash on February 10, 2022, 01:50:41 AM
.... I'm reasonably confident there was never a time when anything other than a fringe minority thought the world was flat.

Ok. Then what shape did they think it was and why?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: billy rubin on February 10, 2022, 03:32:00 AM
why?

it looks flat to me, everywhere ive ever been.

if you have no knowledge of earth geometry or astonomy than what you expwrience for yourself, it seems like a logical conclusion to assume that what you see is the way it is

Hack. It's worth pointing out that Billy is currently a truck drive (ex-palaeontologist) and spend months driving throughout the USA. Including Nebraska which makes the Netherlands look mountainous. :D

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

billy rubin

its really really really flat in nebraska.



Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

hackenslash

Quote from: billy rubin on February 10, 2022, 11:10:45 AM
its really really really flat in nebraska.

Oh, I know Nebraska. I spent a three-year day driving West through the dunes once (place is like a fucking time vortex, and forget getting a signal of any kind; absolute internet asshole of the planet), heading for Alliance, and I've covered the Western half of the state multiple times, running between Denver and points North via Alliance. Indeed, my favourite ever coffee is from an espresso hut called Pi Kappa Cino just on the edge of Sterling on the 138. Stupendous coffee. Motivated my first ever google review.
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

hackenslash

Quote from: Tank on February 10, 2022, 08:52:32 AM
Quote from: hackenslash on February 10, 2022, 01:50:41 AM
.... I'm reasonably confident there was never a time when anything other than a fringe minority thought the world was flat.

Ok. Then what shape did they think it was and why?

They thought it was the same shape as everything else they could see. Anybody who lived at significant elevation or in a maritime setting would have intuited a sphere, notwithstanding rumours about the 'edge of the world'. Eratosthenes put a figure on it more than 2,000 years ago, and various bits of evidence motivated writing on the shape of the Earth long prior. Aristotle noted that the shape of the Earth's shadow on the moon during an eclipse was always curved, which could only be explained by a sphere.

I gave this a pretty comprehensive treatment some years ago debunking flat Earth.

DJ, Spin That Shit!
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

hackenslash

Quote from: Mr. B on February 10, 2022, 04:41:24 AM
Quote from: hackenslash on February 08, 2022, 10:19:53 PM
I do intend to do a lot about things people know about science that aren't true, like time beginning at the big bang, and that sort of thing, so I have some coverage there. That's not to say I'm not interested in examples of that, too, but I'm looking for more general things people think are true that aren't.

If you go outside while it's cold and rainy without proper attire, you'll catch the common cold. I don't think that is how the common saying goes but as I was growing up it was taught to me that it's not safe to play in the rain. Especially in the winter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbUC-UaAxE

That's an interesting one, for several reasons. It's certainly true that the common cold is caused by a virus (actually, a group of about 200 distinct viruses, included more than one coronavirus), and this motivated looking at the 'old wives' tale' about the cold.

Thing is, though, the old wives' tale is actually true in some measure. Recent research has shown that lowering body temp suppresses the immune system in some measure. This, coupled with the fact that many viruses thrive in cold environments - particularly viruses that attack the upper respiratory tract (because that's one of the coldest places in the body), means that keeping warm measurably improves infection and sickness rates. This is also why viral infections tend to increase in warmer months.

QuoteCold weather and respiratory disease, including flu, also go hand in hand. Research has shown that cold spells are reliably followed by upticks in the number of deaths from respiratory disease. Some of this may have to do with a few infectious organisms, like flu viruses, thriving in colder temperatures, but there's also evidence that exposure to cold temperatures suppresses the immune system, so the opportunities for infection increase. A study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in the late 1970s famously debunked the belief that the common cold is linked to cold exposure, but British cold researchers have maintained that there is a cold–to–common cold connection. Their hypothesis: cold air rushing into the nasal passages makes infections more probable by diminishing the local immune response there.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/out-in-the-cold
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

billy rubin

Quote from: hackenslash on February 10, 2022, 11:36:56 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 10, 2022, 08:52:32 AM
Quote from: hackenslash on February 10, 2022, 01:50:41 AM
.... I'm reasonably confident there was never a time when anything other than a fringe minority thought the world was flat.

Ok. Then what shape did they think it was and why?

They thought it was the same shape as everything else they could see. Anybody who lived at significant elevation or in a maritime setting would have intuited a sphere, notwithstanding rumours about the 'edge of the world'.

still looks flat to me, even from a height.

Quote
Eratosthenes put a figure on it more than 2,000 years ago, and various bits of evidence motivated writing on the shape of the Earth long prior.

how many people could tead ancient greek, or had access to eratosthenes on thr first place? there werent many copies.

Quote
Aristotle noted that the shape of the Earth's shadow on the moon during an eclipse was always curved, which could only be explained by a sphere.

or a pancake.

how does this relate to common sense   ?


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

hackenslash

Quote from: billy rubin on February 10, 2022, 12:49:00 PMstill looks flat to me, even from a height.

And I'm sure many would agree, and there's certainly been a thread of that throughout history, but there's sufficient evidence that at least some were thinking along the right lines.

Quotehow many people could tead ancient greek, or had access to eratosthenes on thr first place? there werent many copies.

That's a pretty nonsense objection. That he derived a figure at all shows that people were thinking about it.

Quoteor a pancake.

Wouldn't explain it, because at least some of those instances would have been edge on. Doesn't match.

Quotehow does this relate to common sense   ?

Because it's about intuitions, which is what appealing to common sense is all about.
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

billy rubin

well sure, there were people who thought the earth was round. i suggest that their number was probably less than one in a million of the general population of the world at any time.

hard to estimate that, you know.

as for pancakes, im assuming no other astronomical relationships. pancakes are round and flat at the same time and can cast a round shadow.

but im still intetested in common sense and intuition. i dont know what you mean by the words.


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

hackenslash

Quote from: billy rubin on February 10, 2022, 01:05:59 PM
but im still intetested in common sense and intuition. i dont know what you mean by the words.

That's kind of the point. What I might mean by them isn't relevant to the project at hand, because I'm interested in general notions of common sense and intuition. My definitions are not the subject.
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

billy rubin



Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.

hackenslash

Sorry, I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I just genuinely don't want to colour the discussion more than necessary, because it's at least in part research for the project, as well as good vox pop input (vox pop is another thing I intend to treat).
There is no more formidable or insuperable barrier to knowledge than the certainty you already possess it.

billy rubin


So, I need a little help, hopefully with some discussion. I need examples of common knowledge that aren't true, and examples of common sense that isn't sensible. The more common the examples, the better.


so ^^^this is what youre looking for?


Given that most people struggle with legible handwriting already, the added complexity of cursive is an unnecessary burden. It is more practical and efficient to stick to standard print writing.