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Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Started by Gnostic Christian Bishop, January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM

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Gnostic Christian Bishop

Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL 

billy rubin

hey gnosyic

whats happening?

what do you do with your life when youre not around here?


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

hermes2015

#2
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL

Or just plain good luck?
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Recusant

Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL

Or just plain good luck?

:lol: :thumb:

:postoday:

You hit that one out of the park, man. A genuinely superb reply to the eructations of friend "DL".
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Tom62

Quote from: hermes2015 on January 29, 2022, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL

Or just plain good luck?

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :brava:
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

hermes2015

"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Tank

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL

Nature, yes.
Nurture, no.
God, fuck off!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

No one

Are you looking for a reason to step out of that closet buddy?

It's ok, go ahead. I won't think any less of you. It's that bottom of the barrel mindset of yours that's the true issue here.

Speaking of bottoms, maybe if you find yourself a nice daddy, you'll finely accept you for who you really are.

Homosexuality is not an issue, the narrow-minded, hate filled asshats are.

billy rubin

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on January 29, 2022, 02:31:16 AM
Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL

dl, ive looked over your 80 some posts here on this forum, briefly. yiou tend to visit, post , and leave. some discussion, but you attract some hostility, as do most theists who visit here.

ill make an attempt to respond to your question. i do not have a belief in god, so i wont try to make up an answer for that.

with respect to nature/nurture,  youhave to determine whether the drive you examine is instinctive or learned. homosexual behaviour can be practiced by anybody, for any number of reasons, and may be a learned preference due to accomodation in all sorts of people. ive had homosexual experiences, when young, out of curiosity, but i am about as heterosexual as i can be.

but from the homosexual people i know, the preference for what sorts of people are attractive as mates appears innate, and is manifested at the same time and in the same ways as with heterosexual people. there are all sorts of mathematical models regarding sexual selection, encompassing positive or negative phenotypic assortitive mating, and it seems to me that the instinctive drives towards finding a mate in a social species like humans are likeley similar. as a social species, our genotypes are favoured in communities not by our individual reproductive success, but by the survival of our genes, the inclusive fitness to which i earlier refered. a group who contains some members whose contribution to the group is not directly related to their own reproductive success but instead is a function of inclusive fitness appears with aunties in lion prides, and non-reproductive female caregivers in elephant herds.

this may or may not apply to human homosexuality, because there is nothing that prevents homosexuals from having children and families and lots do, just like with heterosexual matings. but sexual orientation and sexual drive neednot be coupled directly to reproductive success in the first place.

so i think my answer to you question is that it is both nature and nurture, as with so many other human behaviours. human sexuality isnt binary, with gays and straights staring at each other across some immoveable wall. the assumption that it is is what has caused a great deal of difficulties in the world. rather, sexual orientation appears to be a continuum, with lots of odd side branches and parallel journeys, some instinctive and some learned.

given this, you wrote that it was quite important to have an answer to the question. why do you think it important to have an answer to this question in particular in the first place?


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

hermes2015

Billy, that is a well thought out response. I think of male sexuality as continua along orthogonal axes. In its most unrefined form it has two dimensions, with x and y axes. The one (call it the x-axis) would be a person's innate sexual preference, from 0% to 100% preference for the same sex. The second (y) could be behaviour, ranging from 100% butch and rugged to 100% effeminate. So, one can have a very girly guy who is only attracted to women, or a Rambo who only wants to have sex with males. One can add further dimensions: one possibility would be appearance. Another axis could be racial preference. So, in this system one could have a Boy George look-alike who only wants to sleep with women, and who minces around with limp wrists while doing Rambo-like things. I have been around the block a few times and have met (not necessarily known) all types.
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

billy rubin

i dunno. sex and gender is something ill never understand. but i think your axes point out quite clearly that there is a continuum on preferences and expression in human sexuality, and i think to label one particular point normal and the others not ignores the reality of what human beings have always been.

i think its worth pointing out that the folks who assert that sexual preference/expression are supposed to only be in th eform that allowsfor traditional reproduction ignore the fact that lots of heterosexual people prctice birth control of some sort.

if theyre doing that, then the argument that sex allowing for eproduction is th e3only correct version rings somewhat hollow.

what about female sexuality? it seems to me that women are more similar to each other and men to each other, no matter what their sexual orientation is. but ive known all kinds of exceptions all over the map. i used to run a weekly farmers market booth in the gay/artsy section of a big city, and got to know all sorts of different people. but mostly that experience just taught me that the best way to deal with people is just to treat them th eway they saw themselves.



"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

Recusant

Quote from: billy rubin on January 29, 2022, 03:24:26 PMdl, ive looked over your 80 some posts here on this forum, briefly. yiou tend to visit, post , and leave. some discussion, but you attract some hostility, as do most theists who visit here.

Most likely you have encountered this individual elsewhere, though perhaps not. I certainly have. To the extent he attracts hostility it is more because of the twaddle he posts rather than his religious identity. The same can be said of "most theists who visit here."
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


billy rubin

the ones who do come here dont seem much interested in persuasion, or even in conversation in general. what ive seen has mostly been challenges to debate and lots of cut and paste "take-that!"arguments from somewhere else.im perfectly comfortable with my understanding of religions, and while i have an open mind, i frankly have heard it all before, so far.

i dont mind talking with anybody about anything, but i have little interest in being talked at by someone who doesnt want to listen.


"I cannot understand the popularity of that kind of music, which is based on repetition. In a civilized society, things don't need to be said more than three times."

TheFightSong

 :popcorn:

Homosexuals exist because of their nature and humanity's tendency to have complex personalities.

As a bisexual myself, I will say that heterosexuality is normal for humans. A reason for this is because the people's incentive to prevent their specie from going extinct. Also, not everyone can afford fancy technology for sperm donors, gestational surrogacy, etc. Adoption is more expensive than creating a biological child to raise through traditional reproduction. The cost of fancy technology and adoption are why some homosexual couples cannot afford children easily. It is also hard for homosexual couples to have legal custody of their children in specific countries that do not have protected rights for the LG.B.T. community. Homosexual couples are still having a hard time having enough money and/or legal protection for being treated equally to heterosexual couples in specific countries. Homosexuals get punished by death in the middle eastern countries due to Sharia law from Islamic influence. This has made it harder for homosexuality to be fully embraced everywhere when homophobic politics, homophobia, fear, and normalized heterosexuality exist.

Gender has nothing to do with sexuality. Because it is not biological science nor hard science. Sexuality is a biological experience. If a biological female is attracted to the same sex only, she is a lesbian. If a biological male is attracted to the same sex only, he is gay. Biological sexes are what determine people's sexual orientations, not genders.

hermes2015

I don't know whether this has been posted before, but I thought it would be appropriate in this thread.

Heterosexual Questionnaire
    1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
    2. When and how did you first decide you were heterosexual?
    3. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?
    4. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a passing phase?
    5. Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from the neurotic fear of others of the same sex?
    6. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?
    7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?
    8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet?
    9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers?
    10. Despite all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?
    11. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they might face?
    12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
    13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?
    14. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality, and fail to develop your natural homosexual potential?
    15. There seem to be few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames