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George Floyd

Started by Magdalena, May 31, 2020, 02:20:45 AM

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Davin

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Ecurb Noselrub

The best way to root out the institutional racism in police departments is simply to hit back hard when this kind of oppression occurs. The local prosecutor needs to have the guts to bring charges, the city needs to fire the violators immediately, the Justice Dept. needs to sue them for civil rights violations, and multiple peaceful protests need to be organized.  The violent protests are counterproductive. We can root this thing out - after multiple suits and prosecutions, bad cops either won't want to be on the force or they will simply change their actions.

Violent protests distract from the job at hand, and calls for defunding the police are simply non-workable. We need a police force, but one that respects and is trusted by the community.  Positive efforts to recruit more minority cops is also a positive step.

Randy

I agree with Bruce. He worded it far better than I could ever.

Minneapolis is already attempting to defund and dismantle their police department. While I don't agree with them having the power they do I somehow think this is going to bite back.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Tom62

I fully agree with Bruce as well. There is a danger that crime rates will go up if you defund the police (Ferguson effect). Most likely gun sales will go up as well, because people think that they need to protect themselves. 
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Magdalena

Quote from: Davin on June 08, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
This guy, dressed suspiciously as a fire fighter sitting in a car right outside his fire station, was apparently very suspicious for some reason.



Officers that see phantom guns, I think, should be riding the desk. That kind of eye or hallucination problem I think should disqualify them from operating guns in the public.
That's so messed up.
My man goes through this shit all the time. They pull him over, handcuff him, placed in a police car while they search the car, then they let him go. I live with fear thinking one day they're gonna kill him just for driving to work while being brown.

Like this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/philando-castile-minnesota-black-man-killed-by-police-family-speaks-out/

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Davin

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 08, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
The best way to root out the institutional racism in police departments is simply to hit back hard when this kind of oppression occurs. The local prosecutor needs to have the guts to bring charges, the city needs to fire the violators immediately, the Justice Dept. needs to sue them for civil rights violations, and multiple peaceful protests need to be organized.
We'd all have loved for the problem to be solved the best way. After a few decades, it looks like not very many people want to do it that way.

Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubThe violent protests are counterproductive.
There is a lot wrong with that. It's weird how a "few bad apples" in the police is acceptable, we need to calm down and keep trying the same things over and over again. But a "few bad apples" in the protestors means we have to shut the whole thing down because it's being counter productive.

And there are many times on camera showing that the cops are starting with the violence against the peaceful protestors.

Quote from: Ecurb NoselrubWe can root this thing out - after multiple suits and prosecutions, bad cops either won't want to be on the force or they will simply change their actions.
Your optimism is noted, but in reality, it looks like all the suits and prosecutions are doing is giving the bad cops paid vacations and the tax payers paying the victims. There have been a lot of suits and prosecutions. They amount to almost nothing and the only effect they seem to have is to make the situation worse for everyone but the cops.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub
Violent protests distract from the job at hand, and calls for defunding the police are simply non-workable.
Yes, the violence in the protests does distract from the problem at hand. It's weird how the police keep starting shit and spraying peaceful people in the face with mace (something that we're not allowed to do to enemy combatants in a war).

Why not defund the police and create something better instead? Why is that not workable? So far, over the last few decades, police reform hasn't fixed anything. Maybe starting over from scratch is the way to go. Maybe defund them down to something simple and basic and create other institutions that are better equipped to handle more specific situations.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub
We need a police force, but one that respects and is trusted by the community. Positive efforts to recruit more minority cops is also a positive step.
If you keep trying the same thing over and over again and it's still not working, maybe the tactic is wrong.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Davin

Quote from: Magdalena on June 08, 2020, 08:20:37 PM
Quote from: Davin on June 08, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
This guy, dressed suspiciously as a fire fighter sitting in a car right outside his fire station, was apparently very suspicious for some reason.



Officers that see phantom guns, I think, should be riding the desk. That kind of eye or hallucination problem I think should disqualify them from operating guns in the public.
That's so messed up.
My man goes through this shit all the time. They pull him over, handcuff him, placed in a police car while they search the car, then they let him go. I live with fear thinking one day they're gonna kill him just for driving to work while being brown.

Like this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/philando-castile-minnesota-black-man-killed-by-police-family-speaks-out/
I've been stopped by the police on several occasions when I've been doing nothing wrong. It's not great.

And Castile is a sad example to bring up. He followed all the orders of the cop. He did nothing wrong. And he was still shot dead. It's not the first time something like that has happened.

What is at issue here, is that I am an American citizen who obeys most of the laws (I do go +5 over the speed limit from time to time). People say I should just comply with anything the officer says, like I'm a hostage. As soon as a cop decides I'm suspicious, for whatever random, fucked up, inconsistent reason they feel like on that day, I'm supposed to just do whatever they say like I have no rights. And that is supremely fucked up. And it's fucked up that people support that. We should have unassailable rights as free law abiding citizens of this country. I get that in some situations, some things might be skirted. Cops should not have the power that they currently have.

And it would be great if I could trust the system, that they take care of and weed out the bad apples. But that clearly is not happening. Cops are getting transferred like the pedo priests in the Catholic Church. One guy got fired and then hired back for a few months so he could get a pension. But it's like the saying goes, "a few apples spoil the bunch." But I feel like people keep thinking that a few bad apples means things aren't so bad.

I should not have public servants roll up on me three cars deep and pull their guns on me while I'm walking down the sidewalk to college. I should not of had to be the calm one in the situation like I had to be when I was being held up at gun point. It's fucked up. It's been fucked up for a long time. And I'm fed up with things going backwards.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Davin


These violent protestor sure was giving the protests against police brutality a bad name. Look how violent the 75 year old man was being.

Watch the "few bad apples" walk right by and do nothing while he's bleeding from his ear. Well, at least it looks like one of the "good ones" was going to help the old man they just shoved to the ground, but the bad apples just wouldn't let him. Because a few bad apples spoils the bunch.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Sandra Craft

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Magdalena

Quote from: Davin on June 08, 2020, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on June 08, 2020, 08:20:37 PM
Quote from: Davin on June 08, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
This guy, dressed suspiciously as a fire fighter sitting in a car right outside his fire station, was apparently very suspicious for some reason.



Officers that see phantom guns, I think, should be riding the desk. That kind of eye or hallucination problem I think should disqualify them from operating guns in the public.
That's so messed up.
My man goes through this shit all the time. They pull him over, handcuff him, placed in a police car while they search the car, then they let him go. I live with fear thinking one day they're gonna kill him just for driving to work while being brown.

Like this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/philando-castile-minnesota-black-man-killed-by-police-family-speaks-out/
I've been stopped by the police on several occasions when I've been doing nothing wrong. It's not great.

And Castile is a sad example to bring up. He followed all the orders of the cop. He did nothing wrong. And he was still shot dead. It's not the first time something like that has happened.

What is at issue here, is that I am an American citizen who obeys most of the laws (I do go +5 over the speed limit from time to time). People say I should just comply with anything the officer says like I'm a hostage. As soon as a cop decides I'm suspicious, for whatever random, fucked up, inconsistent reason they feel like on that day, I'm supposed to just do whatever they say like I have no rights. And that is supremely fucked up. And it's fucked up that people support that. We should have unassailable rights as free law abiding citizens of this country. I get that in some situations, some things might be skirted. Cops should not have the power that they currently have.

And it would be great if I could trust the system, that they take care of and weed out the bad apples. But that clearly is not happening. Cops are getting transferred like the pedo priests in the Catholic Church. One guy got fired and then hired back for a few months so he could get a pension. But it's like the saying goes, "a few apples spoil the bunch." But I feel like people keep thinking that a few bad apples means things aren't so bad.

I should not have public servants roll up on me three cars deep and pull their guns on me while I'm walking down the sidewalk to college. I should not of had to be the calm one in the situation like I had to be when I was being held up at gun point. It's fucked up. It's been fucked up for a long time. And I'm fed up with things going backwards.
I hear you, Davin. My man has survived because when the po-po asks him for his driver's license, he always says to them:
" It's in my back pocket. Can I take it out?" When they reply, "Yes." He takes it out.
:secrets1: Just to avoid,
:airquotes: misunderstandings. :airquotes:

It's like being in front of a T-rex.


It's fucked up. It shouldn't be like that.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

billy rubin

we used to call them pigs.

then that became unfashionable.

well, if nothing changes, everything comes back into style eventually.

pigs.


more people have been to berlin than i have

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Davin on June 09, 2020, 12:17:00 AM

These violent protestor sure was giving the protests against police brutality a bad name. Look how violent the 75 year old man was being.

Watch the "few bad apples" walk right by and do nothing while he's bleeding from his ear. Well, at least it looks like one of the "good ones" was going to help the old man they just shoved to the ground, but the bad apples just wouldn't let him. Because a few bad apples spoils the bunch.

That's just so fucked up. Like, really fucked up.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 09, 2020, 01:30:55 AM
Quote from: Davin on June 09, 2020, 12:17:00 AM

These violent protestor sure was giving the protests against police brutality a bad name. Look how violent the 75 year old man was being.

Watch the "few bad apples" walk right by and do nothing while he's bleeding from his ear. Well, at least it looks like one of the "good ones" was going to help the old man they just shoved to the ground, but the bad apples just wouldn't let him. Because a few bad apples spoils the bunch.

That's just so fucked up. Like, really fucked up.
Do you want to hear what's more fucked up than that?

Florida police organization offers to hire cops who were fired or resigned over police misconduct
Quote
...On Saturday, the Brevard County chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police posted a message on Facebook addressed to the "Buffalo 57" and "Atlanta 6," saying that it was "hiring."

"Buffalo 57" appears to refer to the 57 police officers in Buffalo, New York, who resigned from the force's emergency response team following the suspension of two officers who were captured on video pushing a 75-year-old protester to the ground.

"Atlanta 6" refers to the six Atlanta police officers who were booked, five on felony charges, after being accused of using excessive force on two black college students who were leaving a protest in their car. In a video recording of the incident, the officers are seen breaking the vehicle's windows, pulling the female student out of the car and tasing the male student.
...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/08/us/brevard-county-florida-police-union-misconduct-trnd/index.html

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Ecurb Noselrub

So, Davin, hypothetically, what other institutions would you create to take the place of the police?  Seems like a Utopian fantasy to me, but let's hear what you have to say. You are the Mayor of Newville, population 250,000, and have just defunded your police department. What now?

Davin

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 09, 2020, 03:27:55 PM
Seems like a Utopian fantasy to me, but let's hear what you have to say.
Before I answer your question, I really have to know how it can sound like a Utopian fantasy to you before you even asked me to say anything about it?

And how does your imaginary version that you created in your own head sound any more Utopian than the tried and failed for decades way you mentioned for correcting the problem.

Also, it may fix the completely made up and imaginary version you created in your head to understand that we've been defunding schools for decades, and schools are still around.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.